Have You Been Groped Lately?

[professor]

The good professor has heard from many travelers who have been, uh, touched inappropriately when they passed through airport security.

What's your story?

[silver cloud]

Actually, I wasn't touched myself. But when my friend kept setting off the
machine I suggested maybe he frisk her. The man WAS cute and my friend is single...so.... However, even though the agent thought it was funny, she did NOT.

Some people just don't have a sense of humor!!
:lol:

[Jeanie821]

I myself have never been touched inappropriately by a TSA agent - but if I had, it probably would have been the best offer in a while! :lol: (Maybe I'm just not attractive enough.)

However, I did manage to make a TSA agent blush about three years ago, right after the terrorist attacks. My dad and I had to fly from JFK to Sacramento, and this was our first experience with the new airline security methods. It was very early in the morning, before sunrise, and I was a bit punchy. An agent advised me that he would have to do a patdown search, and because he was male, wanted to know if I was comfortable with that. I gave him my most winning smile and said, "Only if you buy me breakfast afterwards."

The look on the guy's face was priceless. Poor Dad turned about three shades of purple!

[IslandJacks]

Jeanie ... You MUST be cute ... your picture is the Cat's Meow!

Originally posted by Jeanie821@Jul 11 2005, 12:47 PM
I myself have never been touched inappropriately by a TSA agent - but if I had, it probably would have been the best offer in a while!** :lol:** (Maybe I'm just not attractive enough.)3949

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by IslandJacks@Jul 11 2005, 02:23 PM
Jeanie ... You MUST be cute ... your picture is the Cat's Meow!
3968

Are you flirting with me? :)

[Guest]

Originally posted by silver cloud@Jul 11 2005, 08:43 AM
Actually, I wasn't touched myself.* But when my friend kept setting off the
machine I suggested maybe he frisk her.* The man WAS cute and my friend is single...so....* However, even though the agent thought it was funny, she did NOT.

Some people just don't have a sense of humor!!*
:lol:
3934


I can't believe that you would treat someone you call your friend in such a disgusting and disrespectful way. If a "friend" made a comment like that about me, suggesting that I would enjoy being groped by someone I don't even know, I think I'd never speak to that person again.

"Some people" (like those who are decent human beings) "just don't have a sense of humor" (about having people yell sexually suggestive comments at them in a public place) is right.

[DenaLou]

Jeanie, I, most likely, would have made the same comment. You just laugh it off and move on with life. Keep the humor flowing!!!

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by DenaLou@Jul 13 2005, 11:17 AM
Jeanie, I, most likely, would have made the same comment.* You just laugh it off and move on with life.* Keep the humor flowing!!!
4110


Thanks! Poor Dad's still recovering from that one...

[Guest]

I have a scooter, and even when I am able to stand and be wanded, they STILL pat me down............it makes me very angry, but when questioned, they just tell me that I can be taken to a private room. I would rather be where I have my traveling companion with me. I thought that if one was wanded, one did not have to be patted down. I feel that it is very discriminatory, especailly since I am not allowed to walk through the screening, even when I volunteer to do so.
Anyone who thinks that it is FUN to be touched should have to go through it themselves........it is very humiliating.

[Kairho]

Hmmm ... I've been wanded dozens of times but patted down only once. Why do some people seem to get that treatment more often?

[GradGirl]

Originally posted by Kairho@Jul 13 2005, 04:44 PM
Hmmm ... I've been wanded dozens of times but patted down only once.* Why do some people seem to get that treatment more often?
4172


Well, I can name two reasons for the fact that I've been patted down in a most unwelcome manner on at least two dozen occasions in the past few years.

One, my travel booking patterns: I sometimes use one-ways and open-jaw itineraries, and I sometimes change my travel times within a few days of a flight. These patterns get me an SSSS on my boarding pass and a for-sure patdown.

Two, I'm a twenty-something petite and curvy woman. If I walk down the street in the city, I get catcalled and whistled at. If I enter an airport, the male TSA agents send me to secondary so they can watch the show. Same phenomenon. It's harassment, plain and simple.

I have gone to great lengths to avoid flying since the TSA started mistreating me and handling my body in a publicly humiliating fashion. Patdowns of innocent travelers make a mockery of "security". TSA is putting people in danger of being assaulted by strangers in a government-issued uniform, and I won't be a victim of their little games.

[GradGirl]

Stories of my previous run-ins with TSA abusers:

A female TSA screener stuck a hand-held metal detector in between my labia, through my very thin silk skirt and my underwear. I was so horrified I thought I was going to vomit. Why on earth do we let these people near us?

A male TSA screener sent me to secondary for no reason at all (I didn't alarm and didn't have SSSS) during the "breast exam" days of late 2004, and then presented himself to do my screening! As if I would ever let a man I didn't know handle my breasts! This exact scenario happened to me at least three separate times at Boston's Logan airport. This is about sexual domination, not security.

There was even a picture printed in the L.A. Times showing a screener who clearly had his hand on a little boy's crotch. The child was about four or five.


And now TSA wants a machine to see through your clothes, and Michael Chertoff doesn't want "an endless privacy debate". I think Chertoff should release photos of himself in the virtual-strip-search machine. Look, I don't want an endless debate, Mr. Chertoff, I just want to see your genitals like you want to see mine. Why does this all sound like fourteen-year-old boys are calling the shots at TSA?

[Eileen Sellers]

I have gone to great lengths to avoid flying since the TSA started mistreating me and handling my body in a publicly humiliating fashion.* **

GradGirl* Jul 14 2005, 07:43 AM Post #12*

Stories of my previous run-ins with TSA abusers:

A female TSA screener stuck a hand-held metal detector in between my labia, through my very thin silk skirt and my underwear.*

I think your idea about avoiding flying is a good one.

Mabia shudda wear pants next time.

[trojan]

My sincere condolences to anyone who has undergone overly intrusive searches. I receive extra scrutiny almost every time I go through security, so I know what it can be like. But I understand this is the world I now live in.

I wish to remind y'all that we are in a war. Either we are serious about it, or we aren't. Personally, I think the entire current process is a farce. Only the most obvious breaches can be discovered.

The newer "see-through" machines, in conjunction with the "puff" machines, on the other hand, offer a much greater degree of safety. I see no legitimate reason as to why we should not be subjected to this.

Remember, we are at war.

If we don't want to go through with the "trauma" such searches may engender, we need to accept that we cannot travel. It is a privilege to travel, not a right.

Aloha.

[Skipster]

Originally posted by trojan@Jul 19 2005, 07:59 PM
My sincere condolences to anyone who has undergone overly intrusive searches.* I receive extra scrutiny almost every time I go through security, so I know what it can be like.* But I understand this is the world I now live in.

I wish to remind y'all that we are in a war.* Either we are serious about it, or we aren't.* Personally, I think the entire current process is a farce.* Only the most obvious breaches can be discovered.

The newer "see-through" machines, in conjunction with the "puff" machines, on the other hand, offer a much greater degree of safety.* I see no legitimate reason as to why we should not be subjected to this.

Remember, we are at war.

If we don't want to go through with the "trauma" such searches may engender, we need to accept that we cannot travel.* It is a privilege to travel, not a right.*

Aloha.
4890


I can see your point, trojan. With thousands upon thousands of casalties from the war with Iraq and the cost mounting by billions of dollars each week, I doubt anybody needs much convincing of the seriousness of the War in Iraq. The new machines do make the TSA's job much easier and, when used properly, may offer a greater degree of security while expediting screening procedures for passengers. I'm all for that. Not one of us wants a repeat of 9-11.

My main concern is the abuse of that equipment and authority for puerile purposes. It's not unheard of for TSA screeners to use their authority to cop a feel or indulge in bullying behavior. I'm glad Jeanie and DenaLou found humor in the prospect of a body cavity search; humor is an essential ingredient in travel. I assume neither of them have ever actually experienced a body cavity search. I have, and found nothing funny about a man groping my nearly nude body.

I also agree with you that many security procedures are serving little purpose other than harassing thousands of innocent travelers by false positive readings and undertrained/underequipped TSA agents. Every single test of the current system reveals potentially fatal flaws.

However, your last statement gave me pause. While the USA is indeed at war, martial law hasn't been declared here at home. To suspend our basic consitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure just so we can say "We're fighting the war on terror" is counter-productive. If we quietly acquiesce, the next step may be the legal adoption of CAPS II technology (it's been adopted illegally already). The sky is the limit when it comes to human behavior.

After all, remember that quote from Benjamin Franklin, a statesman with practical experience with war on these shores:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[silver cloud]

Oh Guest,

He didn't actually pat her down, was just running the wand around her. She thouht it was funny, too.

This is a small airport with nice, personal service. It was a joke. Period.



Originally posted by Skipster@Jul 19 2005, 11:54 PM
I can see your point, trojan.* With thousands upon thousands of casalties from the war with Iraq and the cost mounting by billions of dollars each week, I doubt anybody needs much convincing of the seriousness of the War in Iraq.* The new machines do make the TSA's job much easier and, when used properly, may offer a greater degree of security while expediting screening procedures for passengers.* I'm all for that.* Not one of us wants a repeat of 9-11.

My main concern is the abuse of that equipment and authority for puerile purposes.* It's not unheard of for TSA screeners to use their authority to cop a feel or indulge in bullying behavior.* I'm glad Jeanie and DenaLou found humor in the prospect of a body cavity search; humor is an essential ingredient in travel.* I assume neither of them have ever actually experienced a body cavity search.* I have, and found nothing funny about a man groping my nearly nude body.

I also agree with you that many security procedures are serving little purpose other than harassing thousands of innocent travelers by false positive readings and undertrained/underequipped TSA agents.* Every single test of the current system reveals potentially fatal flaws.

However, your last statement gave me pause.* While the USA is indeed at war, martial law hasn't been declared here at home.* To suspend our basic consitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure just so we can say "We're fighting the war on terror" is counter-productive.* If we quietly acquiesce, the next step may be the legal adoption of CAPS II technology (it's been adopted illegally already).* The sky is the limit when it comes to human behavior.

After all, remember that quote from Benjamin Franklin, a statesman with practical experience with war on these shores:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
4895

[GradGirl]

Originally posted by trojan@Jul 19 2005, 09:59 PM
If we don't want to go through with the "trauma" such searches may engender, we need to accept that we cannot travel.ÂÂ* It is a privilege to travel, not a right.ÂÂ*



No, you are wrong. U.S. citizens have a right to interstate travel that has been recognized by many courts over many years. From a Congressional Research Service (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32664.pdf) report of December 2004:

While not expressly defined in the text of the Constitution, the Supreme Court
has stated that the right to travel is a “privilege and immunity of national citizenship under the Constitution,�34 as well as a “part of the ‘liberty’ of which the citizens cannot be deprived without due process of law.�35 The Court has declared that the constitutional right to travel consists of three different components: first, it protects the right of a citizen of one state to enter and to leave another state; second, it protects the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than an unfriendly alien when temporarily present in the second state; and third, for those travelers who elect to become permanent residents, it protects the right to be treated like other citizens of that state.36

I must say it's frightening that there are people who are unaware that interstate travel is recognized as a Constitutional right!


Unfortunately, this argument is totally inconsequential as a challenge to the TSA's disturbing behavior, because the courts have said that restrictions on only one means of travel may not be considered a restriction on the right to travel. Government can make flying as difficult as they want as long as they keep their hands off train service, in other words.

[trojan]

Wow. OK. I was wrong. Americans who otherwise are free from some form of probation are free to travel between the states.

But nobody, and I mean nobody, has an absolute right to a particular conveyance.

Driving is a privilege. Train travel is a privilege. Bus travel is a privilege. Air travel is a privilege. Think not?

All transpo companies can refuse service to anyone for myriad reasons. If I am drunk, I ain't gona fly. Therefore, I do not have a right, do I?

People, we are at war. The war has been brought to us, on our soil, on at least two occasions at the WTC. I argue that OKC was also a part of this war. The Tube was hit two weeks ago. Every expert of whom I am aware says it is a matter of time before we are hit again on our own soil. Wake up.

My personal politics are rather extreme on the libertarian spectrum. Franklin's admonition is most definitely correct. I will argue with anyone about the willing loss of liberty our society has agreed to. It is sickening and frightening. But when it comes to genuine security of our nation and our people, I recognize that my rights pale next to the safety of all.

This whole thing comes down to the degree to which any of us perceives a genuine threat. I believe it is very real and will cause more damage than most imagine today. Others (a vast majority) have decided that this war isn't really going to have much effect.

History is on my side.

Aloha.

[GradGirl]

Originally posted by trojan@Jul 20 2005, 04:46 PM
This whole thing comes down to the degree to which any of us perceives a genuine threat.ÂÂ* I believe it is very real and will cause more damage than most imagine today.ÂÂ* Others (a vast majority) have decided that this war isn't really going to have much effect.


I disagree. I think it comes down to the degree to which any of us believes the offensive power grabs (and I mean 'grab' literally!) of TSA and DHS have anything at all to do with preventing terrorism. "Airport screening" is an expensive dog and pony show that impresses no one except the woefully uninformed.

Personally, I think perceiving terrorism as a genuine threat is handing terrorists a victory. There is no war to win because a handful of foreign radicals, dangerous though they may be, will never gain sovereignty over our country. Unless of course, a cowardly crawling sniveling public willingly hands the bad guys just what they want - to cripple our transportation systems and thereby our entire economy and our very way of life. I won't crawl, and I am not afraid.

[BEATLESCHICK]

Being at war is no excuse for improper touching by TSA agents!

[jfrenaye]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-0...r-grabbed_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-07-26-screener-grabbed_x.htm)

I guess there is some redemption....

Woman accused of grabbing screener's breasts!

Thanks to Silver Cloud for finding this.

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by jfrenaye@Jul 26 2005, 07:12 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-0...r-grabbed_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-07-26-screener-grabbed_x.htm)

I guess there is some redemption....

Woman accused of grabbing screener's breasts!

Thanks to Silver Cloud for finding this.
5485


Okay, now that's a bit extreme...

[BEATLESCHICK]

Originally posted by jfrenaye@Jul 26 2005, 08:12 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-0...r-grabbed_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-07-26-screener-grabbed_x.htm)

I guess there is some redemption....

Woman accused of grabbing screener's breasts!

Thanks to Silver Cloud for finding this.
5485


LOL! :o

[Marlin]

I do agree that the fact that security is a serious issue and not to be taken lightly, and that I am willing to put up with inconvience to help prevent a lot people getting hurt or killed. But for some of you who have responded to this issue of groping, I think you need to lighten up and have a sense of humor aout this whole thing (after all if we all become a bunch of grouchy mean people, maybe the terrorist's have already succeeded in some small way?
My main compaint is this, if we are going to be groped, we should have a choice of who does it. For me, my choice would be a cute female, age 20 to 30. Others would obviously have other choices as well. While they are at it, why couldn't they make their uniforms a little more attractive as well? Maybe female uniforms a little low-cut?

Obviously this will never happen, but my point is lighten up, deal with and why not have a little fun along the way? Or go by car! Not!

[Guest]

[quote]
Stories of my previous run-ins with TSA abusers:

A female TSA screener stuck a hand-held metal detector in between my labia, through my very thin silk skirt and my underwear. I was so horrified I thought I was going to vomit. Why on earth do we let these people near us?

Hey, you never know where those little bombs might be hidden!

[lafr]

If we don't want to go through with the "trauma" such searches may engender, we need to accept that we cannot travel. It is a privilege to travel, not a right.

Aloha.
4890
[/quote]


I agree with everything you said EXCEPT "It is a privilege to travel, not a right." WHOA!! sorry to be off topic here BUT... it IS a right to travel. Once you let the yahoos take away your rights you are on the slippery slope of the state becoming master instead of servant. The terrorists will have won.

[Gesualdo]

Originally posted by BEATLESCHICK@Jul 25 2005, 11:19 PM
Being at war is no excuse for improper touching by TSA agents!
5467


I completely agree. Being rather well-endowed myself, the only frilly unmentionables available to me are full of wires. I can't help but set off a sensitive metal detector. So when the government decided to start doing these pat-downs last year, I decided no more flying. The only person allowed to touch certain parts of me is my husband. Maybe my doctor - but she better have a REALLY good excuse!

I'll obviously never get to Europe or Hawai'i this way, but at least when I travel now, I get to really see things. I guess that's looking on the bright side.

Gesualdo

[GregR]

I have an artificial hip, consequently I set off almost every metal detector in the world. Unfortunately I travel a lot, so I get secondary screening all the time. It is a pain!

If I thought that all of this was helping it wouldn't bother me at all. But in my opinion it is all in the interests of the government being able to say "Gee we're sorry for the terrorist incident, but we did everything we could to stop it."

We are not at war. I don't remember Congress declaring a state of war. If we are, against who? Potential extremists who wish us ill are everywhere. Are we at war with the world? I also don't remember that there was any way in the Consititution to "kinda sorta" take away our civil rights, especially when there has been no declaration of war or no instance of domestic insurrection.

Terrorism, or I guess we now call it extremism, is a horror. We are not going to win the "war" on terrorism until we can figure out why we are so disliked by virtually half the world's population and do something about it. I travel to a lot of Moslem countries and mostly the people don't dislike Americans. What they dislike are our government's policies. Policies of unilateralism, policies seen by many as anti-Moslem.

I am not an apologist for extreme Moslems just as I am not an apologist for extremists of any ilk. But they are the minority. The average person on the street just wants to get on with their life. We need to get those average folks to understand us, what we do, and that we really, really want to work with them to create a better world for us all. Until the masses in foreign countries turn on their own terrorists and stop looking on us as the bad guys, our battle is pretty much hopeless.

[NSLightsOut]

While travelling around the US recently, I had the misfortune of being frisked by TSA officials at every single airport I flew out of.

Honestly, TSA were downright nice and professional as compared to one frisking I got in Brazil, which was more along the lines of answering the question "What weapon (other than the obvious) could he be hiding in his crotch?" without the aid of a metal detector.

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by Gesualdo@Jul 27 2005, 08:53 AM
I completely agree.* Being rather well-endowed myself, the only frilly unmentionables available to me are full of wires.* I can't help but set off a sensitive metal detector.* So when the government decided to start doing these pat-downs last year, I decided no more flying.* The only person allowed to touch certain parts of me is my husband.* Maybe my doctor - but she better have a REALLY good excuse!

Gesualdo
5637


I can sympathize. These days the only bra I can wear is an underwire. You see, I have "furniture disease".

What is furniture disease, you may ask? Simple...

My chest is sinking into my drawers! :lol:

[funhvr]

aloha,
about 6 months after 9/11, when airport security was in disarray at best, ALL my daughters and i had been "felt up". i suppose they were checking for underwire bras. these were MEN feeling our breasts, not women. it was sick. (suggesting that this is a flirting behavior turns my stomach, but having a sense of humor about it and being able to diffuse the hightened anxiety is probably a reasonable way to deal with this impossible situation) in the same vein of "diffussing" these kinds of moments--- the next time i was wanded, it beeped as they passed over the site of my back surgery. i pulled my elastic-waisted shorts down low enough for them to see the full scar, but the group of men insisted on taking me to a private room. i circumvented this unnecessary delay *right now* by pulling my shorts, panties and all down to my knees . the look on their faces was priceless, no-one had the cajones to stop me at that point, and when i got on the plane, i was greeted with high fives by the folks that had boarded right before me and had seen part of the display. so in effect, i took complete control of the violation of my privacy and person. i DO NOT recommend this as a particularly effective way to sidestep security, but it does speak to the level of outrageous behavior to which we stoop when frustration is the foremost emotion.....
(an aside--can you imagine the uproar if tsa begins to force women to take off their BRAS before walking through the metal detector?)

[lameline]

they made up take off our shoes after some yahoo hid a bomb there. following this logic, why aren't women forced to take off their bras after the terrorist women became suicide bombers? you think gas prices are crippling the airline industry? just wait until x-ray machines are installed. MY mother will stop flying for sure. at least there will be plenty of empty seats, so that those of us who travel out of necessity, not desire, will have more room. and yes, travel is a RIGHT in the USA. all the added restrictions and costs do make it much more difficult for us hawaiians to get around freely, however.

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by lameline@Jul 27 2005, 12:05 PM
they made up take off our shoes after some yahoo hid a* bomb there. following this logic, why aren't women forced to take off their bras after the terrorist women became suicide bombers? 5682


It might be because the bombs were too large to go in the bras. Of course, I'm only guessing...

[mturner]

Originally posted by funhvr@Jul 27 2005, 11:50 AM
the next time i was wanded, it beeped as they passed over the site of my back surgery.* i pulled my elastic-waisted shorts down low enough for them to see the full scar, but the group of men insisted on taking me to a private room.* i circumvented this unnecessary delay *right now* by pulling my shorts, panties and all down to my knees .*
5678



Unbelievable! I can't imagine doing that.

But hey, gives new meaning to the "No Fly" list, eh?

:P

[Marlin]

Originally posted by GregR@Jul 27 2005, 09:52 AM
Terrorism, or I guess we now call it extremism, is a horror.* We are not going to win the "war" on terrorism until we can figure out why we are so disliked by virtually half the world's population and do something about it.* I travel to a lot of Moslem countries and mostly the people don't dislike Americans.* What they dislike are our government's policies.* Policies of unilateralism, policies seen by many as anti-Moslem.
5646


Disliking somebody or a country's policy's is not a reason to kill innocent people. I feel another reason we are disliked is because we are a successful country, and we do have a lot of freedom (even though we have lost some freedom)

But then again even in Iraq, they don't care, they will kill their own people to make a point, so I suppose thier is no way to ever understand these idiots.