Seat in Full Recline: Right or Rude?

[Exfacto]

Is putting your seat in full recline a right or is it just rude?



In my travels I found discomfort when the person seated in front of me put their seat back. First its the shooting pain in my knees when the seat hits. Next I realize I can’t read my book or use the tray table (for eating or laptop computer) because the seat is blocking the table. Lastly, having someone’s hair in my personal space (12 inches from my nose) for an extended period really bugs me.



The only solution is to, you guessed it, recline my own seat and do the same thing to the next person. Personally, I prefer to sit up while flying. The seats are comfortable, I can read, work or listen to music all in a normal seated position.



The situation reminds me of having floor seats at a concert when the front row stands to dance. Short version, once the front row stands up no one can sit in their seats and still see the show so they all have to stand.



Since I tend to over react I’m curious how other people feel about this issue (you see my opinion above).



JJO

[deangreenhoe]

I say lock coach seats in their full upright position. The thought that there's room for anyone to stretch back and relax without invading your territory is a ruse and unrealistic.



More than once I've "worn" my beverage on my pants because someone in front of me decided to slam their seat back abruptly. :?

[jfrenaye]

I also lost a laptop screen from a slam back. I was working diligently and apparently when the seat came back, caught the top edge of the screen (in the tray receptacle) and cracked it right then and there.



No apology at all. they do make a product called the knee defender which is controversial to be sure. Some FAs willconfiscate it others wil let it go.



But I agree, first the level of recline is not sufficient to increase the comfort level, so split the difference--halfway recline them and lock them in a fixed position.



Or...now here is an idea, make a third class of service more legroom and greater pitch with reclining seats. BA did it with World Traveler Plus--it is a hit and I nkow I would pay more.

[stephen_s]

I never ever recline my seat unless I know there's no one behind me. I don't recline the seat because I know that when you get served meals (on those flights that still serve them), there's practically no room for the tray if the person in front of you puts their seat all the way back.

[missalf]

Like Stephen_s I don't recline my seat unless I know it won't inconvenience someone else; i.e. the seat behind me is empty.



One trick I learned on a horrible charter flight thru Apple on Ryan Air was a hardback book propped on the tray table so that the top of the book touches the seat back in front of you keeps that seat from reclining. Ordinarily I wouldn't try to be rude, but these seats literally were the worst I've ever had on any plane, and the person in front of you really WAS in your lap when they reclined backwards.



I doubt if a FA will confiscate a book :lol:

[jjjenny]

It always bothers me when the person in front leans back all the way. Because of that I never do it the the person behind me.

[sardine]

My opinion on this topic is the picture below.



WELCOME TO MY WORLD!! :shock:

This is what I see for hours and hours when someone in front of me reclines his/her seatback fully. In some situations, the normal air flow in the cabin is disturbed because of the interference of the reclined seat in front of me, resulting in an unpleasant bout of nausea. :cry:



I COULD NEVER MAKE A PERSON ENDURE THIS KIND OF DISCOMFORT. IT IS RUDE AND DEVOID OF COMPASSION FOR ONE PERSON TO DO THIS TO ANOTHER.

COULD YOU DO THIS TO ANOTHER PERSON WITHOUT A TWINGE OF GUILT?

http://www.kalonaqom.com/seatinface.jpg

[DT]

In and environment where space is of primary concern, I find it incomprehensible that anyone feels they can just "pop" their seat back into what I consider MY SPACE! Once, on a BA flight, my husband and I were seated at the bulkhead in the rear of the plane where our seats could not recline. Already subjected to the endless lineup for the toilets, we were suddenly assaulted by 3 young women in front of us throwing their seats back without even a simple "do you mind?" Obviously, when your seat is against the back bulkhead, you have no place to go. When I placed my knees against the seat in front of me to protect my space, the young woman reported me to the FA. The resulting scene was not a pretty picture!



My husband and I try to always be considerate of those seated around us because we are all subject to the same conditions. On overnight flights, for instance, I take my booklight so I can read without my seat light interfering with others trying to sleep. I never understand the insensitivity and total lack of manners of some who travel.



DT

Huntsville, AL

[Anonymous]

Reclining seats is perfectly OK. Your space ends where the fully reclined seat in front normally ends up.



But if you hurt someone or if you spill or break something because you were careless, you are liable for assault charges or damage.



Travel tips:

http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/travel.htm

[Anonymous]

The pleasure of flying on Air Tahiti Nui from LA-Tahiti was spoiled by the recliner seat problem. There is no need for seats to recline that much that it is literally sitting in your lap. For every one considerate passenger -- there are 99 jerks (that's the nicest term I can write). Since there is no democracy in coach class -- let ALL seats remain in the upright position! (As a side note the same controversy happened on my commuter bus - passengers at the end of day wanted to recline to the point of sleeping in their own bed. It resulted in many banged knees, shouting matches etc. The result was -- revamped buses with NO reclining seats. Made a better commute for everyone and had been in effect for the last 15 years).

[trishinomaha]

I have to agree with the majority of posters above. I am a a 5'11" female who tends toward claustrophobia on an airplane anyway. I always try to book early or get there early in the case of SWA because an aisle seat is almost essential for me. When the plane takes off and the person in front of me immediately reclines his/her seat I feel my blood pressure raise about 10 points. I never recline unless there's no one behind me and sometimes not even then as I'm usually reading or working on something. It's been my obervation that people who appear to be seasoned travelers usually leave their seats in the upright position as they realize how uncomfortable it is to have their personal space invaded. The "recliners" seem to be younger travelers or people who don't travel a lot and don't recognize some of the "unwritten" courtesies that people who travel regularly observe. I vote for locking seats in the upright position in the coach section of the airplane!



:)



Y'all have a good week!



Trish in Omaha

[Carchar]

I do not vote for leaving the seat in a fully upright position. Some of the seats have a built in "pillow" which then tilts the head forward and makes for a very painful ride after about five minutes.



I need to tilt the seat back about one to two inches (slowly, of course) and that makes all the difference to my spine and sciatic nerve. This is the most comfortable position for me, even on a red-eye. However, I have no problem with others' seats being put into full recline on an overnight flight, after the food service (if there is one) and after the planes lights have been put into night mode.

[Jeanie821]

Definitely, ask the person behind you before you recline. I personally don't mind it, as at 4'11", my legs don't need that much room! :lol:

[blakej]

I never recline my seat on short flights but ones going overseas I always recline my seat for the night. There is a big difference between sitting up for 5 hours and 18hours. Can't imagine anyone being annoyed at someone reclining their seat when travelling overnight. :lol:

[lefty]

Let's get serious about reclining seats.....in steerage where I usually fly, the seats aren't really that comfortable when they are "reclined"....there is really little difference from the seat being upright.....I just leave them "up".....

[bookworm]

I also dislike having others recline into my face and reclining myself. How about suggesting to airlines that they create a no or limited (2" or less) recline area? I would think that such seats would be less expensive for new planes.

[NW CTC]

Sardine & Trish - you're welcome to take the row ahead of me anytime! Thank you for putting the case against reclining so succinctly.

[OmegaOmega]

Originally posted by DT
In and environment where space is of primary concern, I find it incomprehensible that anyone feels they can just \"pop\" their seat back into what I consider MY SPACE! Once, on a BA flight, my husband and I were seated at the bulkhead in the rear of the plane where our seats could not recline. Already subjected to the endless lineup for the toilets, we were suddenly assaulted by 3 young women in front of us throwing their seats back without even a simple \"do you mind?\" Obviously, when your seat is against the back bulkhead, you have no place to go. When I placed my knees against the seat in front of me to protect my space, the young woman reported me to the FA. The resulting scene was not a pretty picture!



* * ** My husband and I try to always be considerate of those seated around us because we are all subject to the same conditions. On overnight flights, for instance, I take my booklight so I can read without my seat light interfering with others trying to sleep. I never understand the insensitivity and total lack of manners of some who travel.



DT

Huntsville, AL



I completely agree. Just because the feature is present, doesn't warrant it's use. In today's flight economy, it just doesn't make sense for someone ot think it's OK to recline their seat. We need more flyer's like you, DT, that are considerate of others when flying.

-A

[BethB]

Now you've hit on my favorite pet peeve subject! If airlines are going to make seatbacks recline, they should be required to put enough space between them that the reclined person is not imposing on the person behind.



I have been in the position of having to put my small carryon beneath the seat in front of me on a jam-packed international flight (no overhead space available) and, as a result, was unable to extend my legs under the seat and needing to have knees bent (I was also in the center aisle, center seat so unable to turn sideways, and I'm 6' tall with very long legs... supposed to be an asset, I know, but it's not for flying!). There's nothing I can do about the length of my legs, or I'd gladly accomodate, rather than arrive in my destination sore and bruised. But the person in front of me insisted on trying to put the seat all the way back, despite it being physically impossible (he was bouncing to force it, but he was bouncing right into my knees every time and this went on for literally hours). I finally had to threaten to kill him to get him to stop -- not really, I was actually very polite and courteous throughout, but I was tempted. I asked the flight attendant to help, but she said she couldn't tell someone they couldn't try to put their seat back because it was their right! I asked if there were any other empty seats anywhere I could move to, but it was a packed full flight (overseas). I was miserable and harboring a lot of ill will toward that other passenger by the end of that flight. Not to mention exhausted and had two very sore black and blue knees, and the empathy of the people sitting next to me. Somethin' just ain't right about that!

[sardine]

Beth's argument is irrefutable logically, morally, and compassionately. :!: Clueless airline executives, who never have to endure the conditons of the sardine can called Ecnonmy Class, may dictate that every passenger has the RIGHT to inflict hours of pain and agony on the passenger behind him/her, by reclining his/her seatback fully, but their ignorance and/or lack of compassion does not give passengers the green light to engage in a harmful behavior: reclining a seatback to the point of injuring or endangering the health of another passenger. :cry:



I find it alarming that passengers who instinctively know, or have been politely informed, that their actions are causing another person pain or discomfort of any kind, stubbornly refuse to put their seatbacks up and will not consider a compromise: cut the angle of the seat recline in half. :twisted:

In addition, I find it incomprehensible that flight attendants seem to side with the person causing the discomfort, by citing his/her right to be comfortable. Have we lost our minds? :?:



Beth's story could have been written by my daughter, who is also tall and has very long legs. From the passenger shoving the seatback into her knees to the flight attendant who sides with the person causing the pain, her story is the same, and on more than one occassion.



This is a hot button issue that has probably incited some serious cases of air rage. It is time to demand that airline exectuives send out a decree stating that the angle of recline be adjusted on Economy Class seats, either that, or increase the seat pitch in all Economy Class cabins. My post is the why; can someone tell me how?

[angabange]

I am sorry to all of you who have had rude people in front of you, I am a person who reclines the seat as far back as it will go but I go slow and try to see what the person behind me is doing before doing so. I will continue to recline. Sorry if you are stuck behind me but I paid for my seat and if I want to recline I will.

[lincoln16]

I agree that reclining seats are a pain BUT... then why are they there?

If they are there to be used, people will use them and there really isn't a thing one can do about it. I try to be considerate of the person behind me by only going back half way. If the airlines didn't want a person to recline then they should make them so they don't recline...we really don't have anything to say except to complain to the airline.

[deangreenhoe]

I agree that reclining seats are a pain BUT... then why are they there?

For the same reason that you still find ashtrays in the armrest on some aircraft even though smoking in flight has been banned for years. :lol: Don't try to apply "logic" to airline issues. It doesn't exist. :wink:

[monkeydad]

I've found that my knees are good and bad on some flights. Depending on the airline, I've found that they are either jammed against the seat in front of me (6'1") or about an inch away from it. One the former, they act as a deterrent or at least a signal that the seat can't be reclined. On the latter, I'm in trouble, the recliner gets enough momentum to whack my knees good. Of course the cry in pain usually results in the seat being moved back up right. :wink:

[guest]

If you hate it so much then buy a better ticket, better yet pettition the airlines to have planes without reclineing seats. Get a life.

[stephen_s]

Originally posted by guest
If you hate it so much then buy a better ticket, better yet pettition the airlines to have planes without reclineing seats. Get a life.



Two reasons why you can't.



1) If you're flying on a business trip, the company (or the client) is paying for it. The company tries to save itself (or the client) money, so you're forced to buy the cheapest ticket (ever hear of back-to-back ticketing?)



or



2) You can't afford to buy an upper-class ticket every time you have to fly.



So before you give us your "I'm better than you" attitude, why don't you look at both sides of the coin.

[sardine]

The following quote was posted by:"Guest" on June 28, 2005 at 1:33 p.m.

If you hate it so much then buy a better ticket, better yet pettition the airlines to have planes without reclineing seats. Get a life.



My Reply:



Buy a better ticket? You are obviously unaware of the difference in cost between First or Business Class tickets, as compared to Economy Class fares. A round-trip, First Class ticket from New York to Sydney is anywhere from 25 to 50 percent, or more, of the gross yearly income of many Americans. Domestic First Class fares times 2, 4 or 6; or multiple destination fares can add up as quickly as a New York to Sydney fare. Repeat after me: "Cost prohibitive!"



Please think with your brain, instead of your anger, before you post. Spending a moment to ensure that simple words are spelled correctly will add a certain amount of credibility as well. Your reason for posting anonymously is quite apparent, for several reasons.

[Ruven]

Once I observed a young man, that sat in the row in front of us, complain to the stewardess that the lady beside me didn't permit him to recline his seat. The stewardess got angry with the lady and told her in sharp tones, that she could recline her seat too.

I understood that if someone reclines his seat, all those behind him, back to the last row, have to recline. :(

[celsusfsc]

Originally posted by jjjenny
It always bothers me when the person in front leans back all the way. *Because of that I never do it the the person behind me.

I also never do. If I needed to, I would have to book two seats, one behind the other.

[AaronK]

Unfortunately, I don't think this will ever be a winning battle.

Fortunately, most people in front of me get the hint when they recline and immediately hit my knees (without me having to do anything to place them in a "blocking" position) and don't try to force it.

[DenaLou]

I, also, try not to recline my seat. It really isn't anymore comfortable than sitting upright. The thing I will miss are the darn pillows!!! I have a bad back and they were a great help, even on short flights. I just need to remember to take my own small pillow with me whenever I fly.

[BYOFT]

When the seat in front of me reclines, it causes me to have a continuous coughing attack. Miraculously, when the seat is returned to the "full, upright position", my cough is cured! :twisted:

[missalf]

When the seat in front of me reclines, it causes me to have a continuous coughing attack. Miraculously, when the seat is returned to the \"full, upright position\", my cough is cured!





Oh, I LIKE that one! I wonder if a sudden attack of the dry heaves would have the same result :wink:

[trishinomaha]

Byoft how clever you are! I would never have thought of that but my "mysterious" cough will also probably kick in the next time someone wants to lay their head in my lap on an airplane...



Y'all have a good day...



Trish in Omaha

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by celsusfsc
I also never do. If I needed to, I would have to book two seats, one behind the other.



At 6' 6" (198 cm), my knees are usually already pressed against the seatback in front of me. The Knee Defender and hardback-book tricks won't work for me, since I can barely get the tray table down.



Since some airlines (like Southwest) require wider passengers to purchase the adjacent seat as well, maybe they ought to force tall passengers like me to buy the seat in the preceeding row?!



Originally posted by BYOFT
When the seat in front of me reclines, it causes me to have a continuous coughing attack.* Miraculously, when the seat is returned to the \"full, upright position\", my cough is cured!



I've also found that the air vent turned on full-blast and pointed at the top of the reclining head often works, too. :)

[DenaLou]

I've also found that the air vent turned on full-blast and pointed at the top of the reclining head often works, too.



I, also, try that. I, also, try to notice that they are wanting to recline their seat and then I will place my hand on the back of their seat and push while they are pushing. Also, if they get up to take a walk, I push the back of their chair and it goes forward!!!!

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by bookworm@Jun 27 2005, 04:52 PM
I also dislike having others recline into my face and reclining myself. How about suggesting to airlines that they create a no or limited (2" or less) recline area? I would think that such seats would be less expensive for new planes.
2991


I think most airlines already have a limited recline area. It's called "coach" or "economy". :lol:

[Gigs]

what about a special tall persons section of the plane? You must prove you're over 6'3" at the gate to get into it.

[Gigs]

Actually, I have been several flights now where I see a tall guy get up from the seat and do stretches right in the aisle of the place. Not a bad idea, if you go to front or rear of the plane to do it. I guess you could always get up and go to the bathroom too...

[Rich G-H]

100% FULL recline is 100% rude. Give those of us with long legs a break and recline a bit but not 100%!

[Rich G-H]

It seems as if Tripso members are the courteous ones and non-members want to "exercise their rights".

[smiller67]

In many yrs of flying coach, I've always encountered the seat in front of me being reclined the entire way. Never a problem. The bigger problem to me is people who hang over the arm rest in your space. I find the seats to be narrower than they used to be.

[Guest]

You get what you pay for. The airlines need that many seats to try to make a profit. They let them recline. You want cheap seats.....you get what youpay for.

[trojan]

I cannot believe my eyes. Not one comment in this thread suggested a polite request of the passenger in front of you. Man.

I am 6' 5", so I suffer more than most. I ALWAYS ask the person in front of me if they wouldn't mind staying upright since I am so tall. Well over 90% of the time they do. Simple, huh?

As for "I gots my rights"..... This attitude gets my blood boiling. Our country is in a steep decline precisely because so many claim rights, without recognizing the taking of responsibility, or the necessity of showing compassion for others. This seat problem is a perfect metaphor for the lack of civility in the U.S.

When I do run into jerks who refuse to exercise compassion, they get a couple of knees in the small of their back for their trouble. Idiots.

I completely agree with the earlier poster who suggested that it is the less frequent and younger passengers who are the rudest.

Aloha.

[sardine]

Why am I such a misfit?
Seat designed for a midget!
Just because I am too tall.
Don’t shoehorn me in!

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by trojan@Jul 19 2005, 07:54 PM
I cannot believe my eyes.* Not one comment in this thread suggested a polite request of the passenger in front of you.* Man.

I am 6' 5", so I suffer more than most.* I ALWAYS ask the person in front of me if they wouldn't mind staying upright since I am so tall.* Well over 90% of the time they do.* Simple, huh?

As for "I gots my rights".....* This attitude gets my blood boiling.* Our country is in a steep decline precisely because so many claim rights, without recognizing the taking of responsibility, or the necessity of showing compassion for others.* This seat problem is a perfect metaphor for the lack of civility in the U.S.

When I do run into jerks who refuse to exercise compassion, they get a couple of knees in the small of their back for their trouble.* Idiots.

I completely agree with the earlier poster who suggested that it is the less frequent and younger passengers who are the rudest.

Aloha.
4881


Trojan...

If having the seat in front of me reclined is a problem for me, believe me, I'd politely ask its occupant not to do so. However, at 4'11", legroom is usually not a problem for me - if you don't have a lot of leg, you don't need a lot of room, so I don't really need to ask. (Actually, if I have the tray table down, having that seat reclined helps me to reach it - after all, the limbs are proportionate to the body! :lol: )

[Guest]

If having the seat in front of me reclined is a problem for me, believe me, I'd politely ask its occupant not to do so.* However, at 4'11", legroom is usually not a problem for me - if you don't have a lot of leg, you don't need a lot of room, so I don't really need to ask.* (Actually, if I have the tray table down, having that seat reclined helps me to reach it - after all, the limbs are proportionate to the body!* :lol: )
5070


Jeanie821,

I am 5'0" tall, and I have never had any trouble reaching a tray table in Economy Class. NO, I am not an orangutan! :P A fully reclined seat back usually ends up very close to my face, causing me to become <span style=\'color:red\'>claustrophobic and nauseated -- the "dynamic duo" of agony in the sky! It's not exactly a blessing! Your point? </span> :wacko:

[Jeanie821]

Hey, to each his own... I'm only saying that it's not a problem for me (I'm pretty easygoing), but I'm sympathetic to those for whom it is a problem.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Jeanie821@Jul 21 2005, 07:20 PM
Hey, to each his own...* I'm only saying that it's not a problem for me (I'm pretty easygoing), but I'm sympathetic to those for whom it is a problem.
5122

Jeanie...it might be easier for you because you can just blink your eyes and be magically transported to another bottle.

You must be a gnome to find a reclined seat in front of making it easier to reach your tray table. Perhaps you fly around on the back of a fairy?

:lol:

[GradGirl]

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 21 2005, 10:48 PM
You must be a gnome to find a reclined seat in front of making it easier to reach your tray table.* Perhaps you fly around on the back of a fairy?


I'll second Jeanie's observation. (I'm 5'2".) I don't mind the person in front of me reclining, and I do find that if the person in front reclines then the tray table is in a more comfortable spot, lower and closer to me.

I never recline because I can appreciate that almost everyone finds being on the receiving end of reclining to be very uncomfortable. Usually I prefer sitting upright anyway, but if I have a window seat I "recline" sideways into the wall.

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 21 2005, 10:48 PM
Jeanie...it might be easier for you because you can just blink your eyes and be magically transported to another bottle.

You must be a gnome to find a reclined seat in front of making it easier to reach your tray table.* Perhaps you fly around on the back of a fairy?

:lol:
5129


Is this friendly teasing, or are you being sarcastic? For your information, I'm not a gnome - but I was once married to one.

[ajaynejr]

I'm not tall enough (sigh) to prove this but if you can put your butt a bit further back in your seat won't you have enough room for your knees despite the seat in front being reclined?

Someone mentioned that when the person in front reclined his seat the tray table behind came down more. I did not find this to be the case, the tray table stayed in the same place. On some planes the tray itself slides in or out a little but not controlled by the seat in front being reclined.

[jnl1588]

I recline at night going overseas and think that's OK

[missalf]

I'm not tall enough (sigh) to prove this but if you can put your butt a bit further back in your seat won't you have enough room for your knees despite the seat in front being reclined?

If the seats were a bit more cushony, that might work, but with the generous quarter inch of padding there's no place to squish into -- I'm not that tall but many of my travelling companions are, and knees crammed up against the back of a seat are bad enough, when someone slams back their seat without warning it can cause major pain -- I've seen the bruises.

I'm not tall enough for this to be a problem, but when the person in front of you reclines, and it's an older plane, you can forget using your tray table!

[Guest]

I agree with pretty much what everyone has said except for assuming the FA's have some authority to tell a passenger what to do with there seat.

Why should they be put in the position of telling someone how much they can recline their seat. What if one person finds any recline unacceptable and another thinks haflway is O.K.? Or maybe you seat neighbor has body odor. Are they responsible for that taking care of that offense?

FA's are not the airplane police. If you fly on a regular basis then you know what there real role is. And it's not to be a seat recline referee.

...and no... I'm not an FA

[Guest]

Originally posted by smiller67@Jul 16 2005, 09:17 PM
In many yrs of flying coach, I've always encountered the seat in front of me being reclined the entire way.* Never a problem.* The bigger problem to me is people who hang over the arm rest in your space.* I find the seats to be narrower than they used to be.
4504

Maybe you are just wider? ;)

[Dan]

If there is a meal served on the flight I will wait until the service is done then check to see if it will inconvience the person behind me before reclining. It's not necessary to do that in my opinion, but I would like it if the person ahead of me would do it, so that's what I do.
Dan

[eccjeep]

Reclining partially, I feel, is acceptable. If, however, the person behind you kicks the seat or slams the seat back tray, a full recline is acceptable.

[pjaizz]

I'm with you Trish! I just think it is rude to recline without asking at all. I try for bulkhead or emergency row seats to avoid this madness. If not, knee defender!



[quote]
I have to agree with the majority of posters above. I am a a 5'11" female who tends toward claustrophobia on an airplane anyway. I always try to book early or get there early in the case of SWA because an aisle seat is almost essential for me. When the plane takes off and the person in front of me immediately reclines his/her seat I feel my blood pressure raise about 10 points. I never recline unless there's no one behind me and sometimes not even then as I'm usually reading or working on something. It's been my obervation that people who appear to be seasoned travelers usually leave their seats in the upright position as they realize how uncomfortable it is to have their personal space invaded. The "recliners" seem to be younger travelers or people who don't travel a lot and don't recognize some of the "unwritten" courtesies that people who travel regularly observe. I vote for locking seats in the upright position in the coach section of the airplane!
:)

[cchubble]

[quote]
The "recliners" seem to be younger travelers or people who don't travel a lot and don't recognize some of the "unwritten" courtesies that people who travel regularly observe.


In the movies we now view short clips cautioning people against talking out loud during the show in consideration of other moviegoers. Would it not be too much to have the FA make a short announcement, at the end of the "welcoming speech", drawing attention to the discomfort other pax may experience if we fully recline our seats? They do announce "comfort suggestions" on overseas flights, such as closing window shades on a long daylight flight, for the benefit of pax wishing to sleep. I have seen "peer pressure", on more than one occasion embarrass an inconsiderate windowsider into loweing the shade. The same peer awareness of seat etiquette may prevent quite a few knocked knees and raised blood pressure levels.. and be a lot cheaper, easier and faster to implement than reconfigurng the aircraft (which- don't get me wrong- is the only permanent solution to this lamentable and painful situation!)

[tdew]

Originally posted by trishinomaha@Jun 27 2005, 09:05 AM
* I have seen "peer pressure", on more than one occasion embarrass an inconsiderate windowsider into loweing the shade.

Ahhh, I have to disagree with you on that.
Why do we have windows and the ability to request window seats if we're not supposed to look out?
I have no interest in the movies being shown or in napping on a plane.
I prefer daylight and reading and I always request a window seat.
I will lower my shade for the duration of a movie - but otherwise, I want to see what's out there.
Maybe we could ask the airlines to build little walls around each seat - so we'd each be able to have exactly what we want....

[ebob]

I thought that I'd add my own two cents with an experience that I had last year.

I was on a regional jet flight. There was literally no room between my knees and the seat in front of me, no matter how I tried to contort myself. When we were in the air, the woman in front of me tried to recline. Of course, as soon as she tried, the seatback hit my knees. She tried pushing back harder. At that point I said, "Ma'am, that's kind of hard on the knees." She apologized profusely and did not try to recline again.

In the past, when the airlines used turboprop planes, the seats usually did not recline. I don't understand the switch to reclining seats in the regional jets. Overall, I found the comfort level on the turboprop planes to be higher that these regional jets.

[traveller]

Originally posted by sardine@Jun 28 2005, 01:27 PM
Beth's argument is irrefutable logically, morally, and compassionately.* :!:* Clueless airline executives, who never have to endure the conditons of the sardine can called Ecnonmy Class, may dictate that every passenger has the RIGHT to inflict hours of pain and agony on the passenger behind him/her, by reclining his/her seatback fully, but their ignorance and/or lack of compassion does not give passengers the green light to engage in a harmful behavior: reclining a seatback to the point of injuring or endangering the health of another passenger. :cry:
I find it alarming that passengers who instinctively know, or have been politely informed, that their actions are causing another person pain or discomfort of any kind, stubbornly refuse to put their seatbacks up and will not consider a compromise: cut the angle of the seat recline in half.* :twisted:**

In addition, I find it incomprehensible that flight attendants seem to side with the person causing the discomfort, by citing his/her right to be comfortable. Have we lost our minds? :?:
Beth's story could have been written by my daughter, who is also tall and has very long legs.* From the passenger shoving the seatback into her knees to the flight attendant who sides with the person causing the pain, her story is the same, and on more than one occassion.
This is a hot button issue that has probably incited some serious cases of air rage.* It is time to demand that airline exectuives send out a decree stating that the angle of recline be adjusted on Economy Class seats, either that, or increase the seat pitch in all Economy Class cabins.* * My post is the why; can someone tell me how?
3060

[traveller]

Originally posted by sardine@Jun 28 2005, 01:27 PM
Beth's story could have been written by my daughter, who is also tall and has very long legs.* From the passenger shoving the seatback into her knees to the flight attendant who sides with the person causing the pain, her story is the same, and on more than one occassion.
This is a hot button issue that has probably incited some serious cases of air rage.* It is time to demand that airline exectuives send out a decree stating that the angle of recline be adjusted on Economy Class seats, either that, or increase the seat pitch in all Economy Class cabins.* * My post is the why; can someone tell me how?
3060



I sympathise with tall people, but what about shorties? That upright position ensures that the headrest hits the head of a short person at an extremely uncomfortable and unnatural angle - on international flights I definitely find it more comfortable to recline my seat, thus enabling me to find a slightly more comfortable spot for my head. Why is your comfort more important than mine? (or mine than yours, for that matter!) Also, when the person in front of me is fully reclined I find it claustrophobia-inducing to keep my own seat upright. I agree with previous poster sardine in that it is time to demand action from the airlines on this issue, especially when I read the article on this website that states that seat recline causes 70% of in-flight fights. However, the action I would want would not be to fix all seats in upright positions. Have you ever tried to fly for up to 15 hours non-stop in that position? I have, and it sucks! I agree that all seats should remain upright on shorter flights and certainly during meal and beverage services, but once the lights are dimmed on overnight flights, seat reclining should remain a matter of personal choice. These guidelines or something similar should be announced by the FA's before take-off and periodic reminders during long flights would be good, too.

[PKVol]

It would certainly create a lot less ill-will in the cabin if planes designed for short haul flights had limited recline. As for long haul flights, if the FA's would have a little more compassion, that would certainly help. I was on a BA flight from ORD to Heathrow last fall and my recline function did not work at all, so I spent about 5 hours with my video screen literally 12 inches from my face. When I notified the FA, she said there was nothing she could do, either for my seat or to notify the passenger in the seat in front of me.

[ajaynejr]

Originally posted by Guest@Jul 26 2005, 03:48 PM
FA's are not the airplane police.ÂÂ* 5580

Not quite right.
Flight crew are responsible for the safety (not necessarily the comfort) of individual passengers as well as the safety of the entire planeload. This responsibility may include the restraining of miscreants.

[Diane]

When my son, and I flew Lufthansa to Frankfurt, we were fortunate to have the two seats, rather than in the middle row of 5. We flew from there onto Warsaw, and that's where I remembered that I'd not chosen seats for our return flight to JFK. Regrettably, we had to sit in the center w/three others. Someone said that it's young people who recline their seats. However, a couple w/gray hair, fully reclined their seats as soon as we were airborne, put on their black eye covers, and remained in that position until it was announced to raise reclined seats for the landing at JFK. I wasn't able to eat my dinner comfortably, nor enjoy the food, w/the guys head close to my tray. To me, the airline should've taken responsibility to announce that all seats must be returned to their upright postion because dinner was to be served. What sayeth you about their responsibility?
.

[NW CTC]

Diane - I experienced the same situation on a recent Lufthansa flight. However, as the flight attendants started meal service, I asked mine if she'd have a word with the row in front. She very pleasantly asked them to return to an upright position until after the meal. They responded very pleasantly and were more careful about reclining for the remainder of the flight, too.

I know it doesn't always work out this well, but it doesn't hurt (usually!) to ask.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Carchar@Jun 27 2005, 11:57 AM
I do not vote for leaving the seat in a fully upright position.* Some of the seats have a built in "pillow" which then tilts the head forward and makes for a very painful ride after about five minutes.
I need to tilt the seat back about one to two inches (slowly, of course) and that makes all the difference to my spine and sciatic nerve.* This is the most comfortable position for me, even on a red-eye.* However, I have no problem with others' seats being put into full recline on an overnight flight, after the food service (if there is one) and after the planes lights have been put into night mode.
2951


I completely agree with you about not leaving seats in a fully upright position. I have a bad back and there are many seats in which the top of the seat is angled forward which makes it painful when the seat is fully upright. It's a good design for the seat only when the seat is somewhat reclined. Whoever designs these seats ought to be forced to sit in it on a 5 or 6 hour flight before they give it their final stamp of approval. When sitting in these seats I have a tough time during takeoff and landing and try to slink down unless and until the FA forces me to sit up or we're allowed to recline.

I disagree about your willingness for full recline on an overnight flight, even after the food service is over and the plane's lights are off when in coach. If there is adequate room for the people behind you when you recline (not US Air for sure) then okay, but if not, the seats should only be allowed to recline somewhat.

Here's why. Some of us are preparing for a morning meeting on our computers and are skipping the 2.5-3 hours of restless sleep that we might be able to get. If the seat in front in a typical coach seat is in full recline the computer is against one's chest. Some of us want to use our tray table to read through the night or look at a movie on a computer or portable DVD player. Some of us want to get up to go to the lavatory. That's not at all easy if the coach seat in front of you is in full recline. Some of us have claustrophobia when we're pinned to our seat by the seat back in front of us. I'm sure there are other reasons too.

Maybe some engineering genius can come up with a solution.

[bakerman2033]

There are some great posts on this topic. The best way to get some change on this issue from the Airlines is to write to them. And the best place to do that is on planetfeedback.com. You'll have a wide audience reading the initial post, adding their letters (hopefully) to the CEO.

A final suggestion would be to perhaps start with just one airline. First one who posts, the rest follow with that airline. (keep it a major domestic airline). Suggest that should they do something about the problem that they advertise the change as an advantage over other airlines. See how quickly the other's might follow suit. They do it all the time, when one cuts fares drastically, it scares the other's to follow. Let's use the same tactic they use on each other on them.

One airline already is advertising more leg room, however, they only have limited seats, you guessed right!, they charge you an arm and the legs you were trying to save to get it. I won't name the airline. I know it' difficult for them to stay financially solvent, however, the stronger one will be the one that win's in the end. Change is good sometimes and perhaps the fact that some of them have and are going belly up might be good for us as a result of the ameneties that will follow as each one try's to out do the other. We need that back again! I say NO to helping them out of bankrupty with federal dollars due to the outrageous salaries of today's CEO's. There should be a law against these guys/gals making 2 million dollars a year and 100 million of stock options for a 2 year contract. How many planes could be properly outfitted using just a fraction of that? We deserve to be treated like people, not as a sardines in a can! You can only hope that the
person who reclines their seat all the way back suffers the same pain someday from the seat in front of them, maybe on their return flight your wish might come true. Maybe you'll be seated in front of them.

[dunker59]

I am 6'-8" and coach seats don't fit me at all. Not only is the pitch too short, but the seatback hits my back improperly. I will gently recline my seat one notch, unless I know there is someone tall behind me. I do not allow anyone in front of me to recline more than one notch, simply because my knees go through the back of the seat into the other person's back and it is too uncomfortable for them to endure. United's Economy Plus is a great addition, allowing the extra room needed to survive flying. Plus, now that pillows are gone, I use a blanket to fill the hollow in the seat so my back has some support.
On those rare occasions when someone jams his seat full back, I jam it right back upright. When he (yes, it is always a male) turns to argue, usually one look at my size prevents any further complaint, fortunately. The airlines could fix this by having greater pitch, and slightly higher fares, but that might involve some good sense.

[salem]

Personally I only recline my seat if it is 'sleeping' period during the flight ie when the cabin is darkened and almost everybody is asleep in their reclined seats.
The only way out of this situation is ask every airline to enforce a very strict new rule. If somebody wants to recline their seat, they have to pay let's say USD 50 for the guy behind them as purchase of 'extra space'. This will definately make passengers to think twice before they want to recline their seats unnecessarily ie in a short flight during daytime.
What do you think?

[cmbaker69]

I think that Bookworm's suggestion is the best - Have a limited recline area, limited to a 2 inch recline, for passengers who dislike having someone's seat in their laps. I'm among them with my overly long legs. I always arrive early, prereserve seats when possible and never recline my seat more that 2 inches unless I'm in 1st or business class and won't interfere with someone else. Being in an area with no reclining seats would be a pleasure, even on long hauls.
Originally posted by sardine@Jun 28 2005, 12:27 PM
Beth's argument is irrefutable logically, morally, and compassionately.* :!:* Clueless airline executives, who never have to endure the conditons of the sardine can called Ecnonmy Class, may dictate that every passenger has the RIGHT to inflict hours of pain and agony on the passenger behind him/her, by reclining his/her seatback fully, but their ignorance and/or lack of compassion does not give passengers the green light to engage in a harmful behavior: reclining a seatback to the point of injuring or endangering the health of another passenger. :cry:
I find it alarming that passengers who instinctively know, or have been politely informed, that their actions are causing another person pain or discomfort of any kind, stubbornly refuse to put their seatbacks up and will not consider a compromise: cut the angle of the seat recline in half.* :twisted:**

In addition, I find it incomprehensible that flight attendants seem to side with the person causing the discomfort, by citing his/her right to be comfortable. Have we lost our minds? :?:
Beth's story could have been written by my daughter, who is also tall and has very long legs.* From the passenger shoving the seatback into her knees to the flight attendant who sides with the person causing the pain, her story is the same, and on more than one occassion.
This is a hot button issue that has probably incited some serious cases of air rage.* It is time to demand that airline exectuives send out a decree stating that the angle of recline be adjusted on Economy Class seats, either that, or increase the seat pitch in all Economy Class cabins.* * My post is the why; can someone tell me how?
3060

[cmbaker69]

Originally posted by Ned@Sep 6 2005, 07:42 PM
I completely agree with you about not leaving seats in a fully upright position.* I have a bad back and there are many seats in which the top of the seat is angled forward which makes it painful when the seat is fully upright.* It's a good design for the seat only when the seat is somewhat reclined.* Whoever designs these seats ought to be forced to sit in it on a 5 or 6 hour flight before they give it their final stamp of approval.* When sitting in these seats I have a tough time during takeoff and landing and try to slink down unless and until the FA forces me to sit up or we're allowed to recline.

I disagree about your willingness for full recline on an overnight flight, even after the food service is over and the plane's lights are off when in coach.* If there is adequate room for the people behind you when you recline (not US Air for sure) then okay, but if not, the seats should only be allowed to recline somewhat.

Here's why.* Some of us are preparing for a morning meeting on our computers and are skipping the 2.5-3 hours of restless sleep that we might be able to get.* If the seat in front in a typical coach seat is in full recline the computer is against one's chest.* Some of us want to use our tray table to read through the night or look at a movie on a computer or portable DVD player.* Some of us want to get up to go to the lavatory.* That's not at all easy if the coach seat in front of you is in full recline.* Some of us have claustrophobia when we're pinned to our seat by the seat back in front of us.* I'm sure there are other reasons too.

Maybe some engineering genius can come up with a solution.
8625

[Guest_dixhillhal_*]

Considering the unrealistic pitch between seats, seats should not be reclined in coach. If you must recline your seat pay for that in a special section or business/first where the additional space is available. Relying on common courtesy of the person in the seat in front of you, in too many cases, is relying on somethng that does not exist.

[Linda K.]

I'm 5'-1" and the head rest is positioned in an uncomfortable spot for me. I use the pillow (when still provided) behind my neck to help with that, but I still need to recline at least a couple inches for my back. Upright is too uncomfortable for a 4 or more hour flight. I don't ask the person behind me before I recline because I've never been asked either and consider this a right just as having the arm rest either up or down. (All those in this subject area that ask seem to be very few and far between as I've never encountered you!)

I was on a flight from HNL one year and a very heavy-set guy was in front of me the whole flight. He didn't recline his seat but when he first sat down it broke the seat--he was that heavy! The broken seat went back farther that the other reclined seats and the hard part was there were no seats to move to cause the flight was full. Luckily, with my shorter legs it didn't hurt them but I was concerned about safety upon landing. If there had been a problem that we'd have had to evacuate fast, I couldn't have gotten out that easily. Just think if I'd have been 6' or more! I feel sorry for you tall people but my seat reclines and I need it to recline a little at least to make it so I can reach my destination still able to walk off the plane!

[seewonders]

I agree that total reclne is rude. But having the seats locked in the upright position is quite uncomfortable for any length of time. I'd like to see a compromise... have the end be 2 or 3 inches from upright. That way there IS a recline for those who need one, and it's not enough to be a bother to those behind.

[glorya14]

I travel overseas at least once a year and have yet to impose my comfort/discomfort on another passenger by reclining my seat no matter how long the flight. If, and only if, the seat behind me is vacant (and what seats are vacant anymore on flights is anyone's guess) would I recline my seat ; but one doesn't garner that much comfort by doing that because of the lack of leg room in airplanes. Which leads me off on another tangent: If airlines are losing money, how come the planes are always filled with no vacant seats available if one would wish to switch seats because of a boorish person sitting in front of you that reclines in your lap?

[Jaybee]

I definitely agree with most everyone here, that seats should be limited to about a 2" recline. On long flights, when I need to try to sleep, I will recling my seat a bit to add a little comfort to my neck, but I did have a miserable flight once, when the person in front of me reclined the seat all the way back, and made it impossible for me to use the tray table, and my knees were extremely uncomfortable. I spent more time than usual standing in the aisle. That was definitely rude, and my subtle method of kneeing the back of her seat didn't make a dent...except in my knees. (sigh!)

I have a question about those code buttons at the top. They don't seem to do anything except show what you tried to include in a post. ???? Am I missing some operational instructions? :( :blink:

[Anonymous]

I was, frankly,amazed to see all the negative responses to seat recline. Obviously the airlines put them in for a reason, that reason being so that we travelers could have a range of positions in which to sit and recline. I am a Gold Medallion member of Delta airlines; I purposely became so in order to reap the benefits, one of them being able to acquire an exit row seat which reclines, allowing me to assume the most comfortable position for myself. I once had a man behind me demand that I put my seat upright because " I am tall". Such person should have acquired a first class, or even a coach seat in an exit aisle; I let him know that. <_<

[stephen_s]

Originally posted by Jaybee@Sep 7 2005, 11:31 AM
I have a question about those code buttons at the top. They don't seem to do anything except show what you tried to include in a post. ???? Am I missing some operational instructions? :(* :blink:
8691

Are you talking about the formatting buttons (i.e, B, I, U, Font, etc)?

If that's what you're talking about one of the things you need to remember is to CLOSE THE TAGS. In other words if you have a {b} (I'm using the curly brackets so I don't actually bold the text--In reality, you would use the square brackets), you have to make sure you include the {/b} at the end of the word(s) you want to make bold.

Most people forget to include the / tag (or hit the CLOSE ALL TAGS link) so it doesn't make the text do what you want it to do.

Another way to ensure that this happens (closing all tags) is use the Guided mode. If you use this mode, a dialog box will pop up when you use the B, I, U, http:, IMG, @, Quote, and Code.

Also, use the OPEN TAGS box as your guide. It tells you how many you forgot to close.

[carolene]

Years ago, the FA always asked passengers to remain upright during meal service. I recently purchased a meal (now you have to pay for them) but couldn't use my tray due to the reclining person in front of me. I say the recline should only be used on overnight flights.

[REDJIM]

[quote]
Now you've hit on my favorite pet peeve subject! If airlines are going to make seatbacks recline, they should be required to put enough space between them that the reclined person is not imposing on the person behind.

EX-actly! It's not a flyers problem, it's the airlines problem. If every frequent flyer complained to their carrier, with an insistance that carried economic threats, the airlines would change their ways. But we just complain to each other.

[lightshow]

Originally posted by Anonymous@Sep 7 2005, 02:00 PM
I was, frankly,amazed to see all the negative responses to seat recline.* Obviously the airlines put them in for a reason, that reason being so that we travelers could have a range of positions in which to sit and recline.* I am a Gold Medallion member of Delta airlines; I purposely became so in order to reap the benefits, one of them being able to acquire an exit row seat which reclines, allowing me to assume the most comfortable position for myself.* I once had a man behind me demand that I put my seat upright because " I am tall".* Such person should have acquired a first class, or even a coach seat in an exit aisle; I let him know that. <_<
8695



What a thread (3 months & running ;-))...

I am nasty, intolerant, and not the sweetest person going: I find myself, usually,
accommodated in the Front Cabin. Due to the fact I don't care for 1A seats, I have,
infrequently, found myself "fully" reclined upon "unannounced." A very short discussion
has always resolved the problem.

Before I recline more than a "bit" I request the permission of the person behind
me to do so. I have NEVER been refused.......I have on very few occasions, been
reclined upon without warning. I have _always_ found, after a very short conversation, that the recliner feels a need to become more upright. :)

[Karenlee]

Being only 5' 1/2" tall, I am usually completely comfy leaving my seat in the fully upright position.

My hubby, however (unfortunately :( must visit our friendly neighborhood chiropractor at least a couple of times a month) has a bad back and keeping the seat upright for more than an hour would pretty much render him unable to WALK upright once we de-planed! I usually note those behind me and have him sit in front of the shorter of the two people.

There have been a couple of occasions when the people behind us were a bit overzealous in their oppinion that hubby NOT recline. It didn't work. It may have worked had they asked him nicely if he wouldn't mind not reclining fully.

If others would try to think about how people would be effected by their actions, it may help. For instance, If I was sitting in front of our 6' 8" friend who posted, I wouldn't even THINK about reclining! (WHere, or where are you when I need something from the top shelf of the market when it's not on the edge of the shelf?!)

[dbake01]

I had a terrible experience yesterday because the woman in front of me insisted on reclining her seat all the way back into my face and knees. I wrote the following note to Continental - I will post any reply I receive from them:

I had one of my most horrible flight experiences yesterday on Continental flight 1426 from Newark to San Diego. I am a frequent flyer for business and pleasure, and the behavior of the person in front of me and the flight attendants who supported her was apalling and inexcusable.

The flight was sold out, packed full, and left 45 minutes late from Newark. I was sitting in coach (seat 26A) and as soon as we reached 10k feet, the woman sitting in front of me in 25A decided that she needed to put her seat back in the full recline position. At the time she put her seat back, I was getting something from a bag under the seat and she forcefully hit the seat into my face and the seat back painfully dug into my knees. I am 6 foot 1 inch tall with long legs, and with someone sitting next me, there was no room for her seat to be reclined all the way. I politely told her that the seat back was hurting my knees and asked her if she could just put it part way back. She rudely responded that she had the right to put her seat all the way back and that if I wanted to have more leg room I should have bought a first class ticket. I told her that there wasn't enough room and she could have also bought a first class ticket if she wanted to recline fully.

This action escalated into her slamming her seat back and my pushing it back upright, until she called one flight attendant who told me that I had to let her put her seat back. I told the flight attendant that she did not have the right to put her seat back, particularly because it made my space uncomfortable and painful for me. The woman in front complained further and eventually the head flight attendant came back and told me "the seats have a button so she's allowed to put her seat back". Furthermore, she threatened me that she was going to give me a "Level 1" and have the plane diverted to the nearest airport. I told her that this was absurd and that the woman had no right to cause me pain. She went away and supposedly talked to the captain and then came back and told the woman to put her seat all the way back. At this point, I gave in because I did not want to inconvenience the rest of the passengers.

I find this behavior to be totally appalling on the behalf of the other passenger in front of me and also on the behalf of Continental's flight attendants. I also hold Continental's management partially responsible due to the unbelievably tight quarters that we are forced to live with for many hours, and then in supporting behavior from rude people like the passenger sitting in front of me and the obvious lack of training given to flight attendants in handling situations like this. Could you please do something to prevent scenes like this in the future? Some suggestions are: limiting the reclining angle of the seats to allow for reasonable legroom even when fully reclined; putting a lever or switch on the back of the seats that allow the rear passenger to control or allow a certain level of reclining; instructing flight attendants on how to come to a compromise between passengers (rather than always accusing the one passenger of being at fault); and increase distance between seats. Following some or all of these suggestions would help all of us to get along on these long, uncomfortable flights.

I for one have already begun to cut back on travel cross country on weekends or on flights I know are packed. I think the airlines industry would do themselves a big favor if they address this before it becomes a much bigger problem and people refuse to fly because of it. Thank you for listening.

[Cindy]

I, like many others here, always ask the passenger behind me before I recline my seat..So far they have always said it was ok and even thanked me for asking..
Although, we always look for the best seats we can find for comfort because my husband is 6'2" and never has enough leg room..
Most of our flights are short, no more than 2 1/2 hours so we manage ok..
The rude people that I am reading about on this thread seem to have the same issues that another thread is talking about, people are all about "me" anymore and don't seem to care about the people around them..
I have seen both sides of this, nice people that respond well when you ask and nasty people that are just looking for a fight..
I can't imagine if there was a person behind me that was uncomfortable because of something I was doing, and asked me nicely to help in their comfort, that I wouldn't oblige..
None of this would be an issue if people just talked nicely, used common sense and treated others how they themselves would want to be treated..
Oh, but I almost forgot, thats from another time isn't it??
Remember the day when people went out of their way to be thoughtful, at least most??

Cindy

[Ned]

Hi dbake01,

Welcome to Tripso! I hope this won't be your only post.

I sympathize with the problems of your recent flight. I think the woman in front of you was rude, and a bore.

I don't agree with your characterization of the crew. I really don't think they had much of a choice in handling the situation. Since I wasn't there myself, I don't know everything that was said. From your description, the FA might have been more diplomatic, but she couldn't order the woman to not recline her seat. The airline did install seats which recline as far as they do into the space behind, and the expectation is that people are allowed to put them in full recline. Perhaps down deep, you even knew your request to the FA, to "force" the woman in front of you to not recline her seat, was unrealistic.

I don't recline my seat before speaking with the person behind me, but I will recline my seat about halfway. I'm not a tall person overall, and short from the waist up. I have a bad back and most seats in planes are designed in which the top of the seat is angled forward which makes it painful when the seat is fully upright. During takeoff and landings, when the seats are required to be upright, I uncomfortably slink down, because that's better than nothing. In my opinion, the seats are not designed to be used upright.

The real cuprit here is the airlines continuing to insert seat rows so close together. If they're going to continue to "pack them in" as much as they do now, they shouldn't allow the seats to recline so much, and they need to redesign the seat to be comfortable without reclining. I have spoken to many people who agree that the seats are not comfortable straight up, especially for long (more than 4 hours) flights. I will interject at this point, that I always fly first class or business class on flights over 2 hours, if at all possible.

Getting back to the woman, what was inexcusable, in my opinion, was her "slamming" the seat back, and her rude behavior, however, your shoving the seat forward was not exactly within the realm of good behavior either. She should have had more consideration for you, or for anyone behind her. If you would have had a computer on your fold-down table, the screen might have been ruined when she slammed her seat back. I would have gone to the FA, away from earshod of the woman, and asked if there was anything she could do, as with the seat in front fully reclined, I was in real pain. Even on packed flights there might have been another seat available. If nothing could be done, at that point, I would have just made the best of a bad situation.

You made some suggestions in your letter. I think limiting the reclining angle of the seats to allow for reasonable legroom even when fully reclined is workable, if the seat back is redesigned, if the airlines intend to continue to pack in so many rows. Use of a lever or switch on the back of the seats which would allow the rear passenger to control, or limit reclining will result in nothing, but angry passengers complaining that someone else can and is in control their "paid" seats. I believe that flight attendants should not have to negotiate between passengers. I submit that long time diplomats, trained in negotiations, would tell you the negotiations will go no where, as long as the person in the seat has nothing to gain by negotiating. To put a flight attendant in that situation would be completely unworkable and unfair. I don't believe the airlines have much interest in increasing distance between seats and thus reducing revenue. I'd be willing to pay more, for more comfortable, larger seats, with rows spread further apart, but I don't think the airlines want to take a chance on that idea, at least not now. We've talked about that here at Tripso, in Big People (http://www.tripso.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106).

In the meantime, you said you were a frequent flyer. I would choose my seats carefully, using a web site such as Seat Guru (http://seatguru.com/), and go for exit row seating which on most airlines is reserved for their frequent flyers, or bulkhead seating so there won't be a problem with the person in front of you. Or perhaps you can use your points and upgrade to first class or business class, if any. You're large. All the airlines are essentially the same with this problem. Knowing what happens in the airplane with reclining seats, make a flight reservation with the problem in mind so you can eliminate or mitigate the problem on your own. Not many passengers seem to be sympathetic when they're in the front seat.

[wrp96]

My brother, who is 6 ft tall, flew Continental this weekend as well to and from San Diego. On the flight out of San Diego, he actually had more leg room on the small regional jet he flew into our local airport than on the 737 from San Diego to Houston. The flight home was even worse. He commented that it seemed like they've added at least one if not 2 extra rows of seats on the 737 since the last time he's flown them.

[candyharrington]

Well I had the most horrible experience last week.

I'm an airplane sleeper. Always. I just walk on and fall asleep before taxi. Hubby is the same way, which is good because we travel for a living. Usually sometime during the flight I wake up enough to put on my MP3 player and then I'm out till landing. And I usually sleep in the upright position. To be honest, I find it more comfortable than reclined.

OK, back to last week. so there I am sound asleep listening to tunes, when the guy in the seat next to my tries to recline and pushes *my* recline button. I go back like a rock, which I have to say is an unsettling feeling when you are in deep sleep and don't really know where the heck you are.

To make matters worse, his timing was horrible, as just at the point I reclined the FA was serving orange juice to the passenger in back of me. I went back, I hit the OJ and got me, the passenger in back of me and the FA soaked in sticky orange juice. And to add insult to injury the guy in the next seat laughed at us all. FA tried to offer as much assistance as possible but she was just as soaked as I was. She did offer jerk passenger a few stern instructions in seat operation. And a little later (I know she felt sorry for me) she came by and said "I've found a set up front for you and I think you'll be more comfortable there." Of course I looked like heck, but hey at least I was away from idiot boy.

And of course I had a meeting immediately upon arrival so there was no time to go to the hotel and freshen up.

Candy

[tdew]

Originally posted by candyharrington@May 22 2006, 11:15 PM
And to add insult to injury the guy in the next seat laughed at us all. 26996

Candy,

That's the worst of the whole post for me! If he had been upset that he'd caused such discomfort for others, you'd probably have made light of it.

[Ned]

Candy, in all my years flying, I have never, ever, encountered a person like that unsympathetic neanderthal who sat next to you. I know it wouldn't have been right, but I think I would have found a way to accidentally spill a sticky soda on him, right where it would have counted. I would have thought about hot coffee, but...

Sometimes my personality leads me to be a real SOB. I suspect the cabin might have broken out in applause when that accident occurred.

I applaud you for your self control, which I don't think many of us would have had.

[susanliber]

And the older woman who spilled a whole can of snappy tomato juice all over my white pants while reaching into her bag to get her bottle of vodka on our way home from Florida last year.....

Maybe we should start a hall of shame.... :blink:

[sardine]

Originally posted by dbake01@May 22 2006, 03:16 PM
I had a terrible experience yesterday because the woman in front of me insisted on reclining her seat all the way back into my face and knees.* I wrote the following note to Continental - I will post any reply I receive from them:

I had one of my most horrible flight experiences yesterday on Continental flight 1426 from Newark to San Diego. I am a frequent flyer for business and pleasure, and the behavior of the person in front of me and the flight attendants who supported her was apalling and inexcusable.

The flight was sold out, packed full, and left 45 minutes late from Newark. I was sitting in coach (seat 26A) and as soon as we reached 10k feet, the woman sitting in front of me in 25A decided that she needed to put her seat back in the full recline position. At the time she put her seat back, I was getting something from a bag under the seat and she forcefully hit the seat into my face and the seat back painfully dug into my knees. I am 6 foot 1 inch tall with long legs, and with someone sitting next me, there was no room for her seat to be reclined all the way. I politely told her that the seat back was hurting my knees and asked her if she could just put it part way back. She rudely responded that she had the right to put her seat all the way back and that if I wanted to have more leg room I should have bought a first class ticket. I told her that there wasn't enough room and she could have also bought a first class ticket if she wanted to recline fully.

This action escalated into her slamming her seat back and my pushing it back upright, until she called one flight attendant who told me that I had to let her put her seat back. I told the flight attendant that she did not have the right to put her seat back, particularly because it made my space uncomfortable and painful for me. The woman in front complained further and eventually the head flight attendant came back and told me "the seats have a button so she's allowed to put her seat back". Furthermore, she threatened me that she was going to give me a "Level 1" and have the plane diverted to the nearest airport. I told her that this was absurd and that the woman had no right to cause me pain. She went away and supposedly talked to the captain and then came back and told the woman to put her seat all the way back. At this point, I gave in because I did not want to inconvenience the rest of the passengers.

I find this behavior to be totally appalling on the behalf of the other passenger in front of me and also on the behalf of Continental's flight attendants. I also hold Continental's management partially responsible due to the unbelievably tight quarters that we are forced to live with for many hours, and then in supporting behavior from rude people like the passenger sitting in front of me and the obvious lack of training given to flight attendants in handling situations like this. Could you please do something to prevent scenes like this in the future? Some suggestions are: limiting the reclining angle of the seats to allow for reasonable legroom even when fully reclined; putting a lever or switch on the back of the seats that allow the rear passenger to control or allow a certain level of reclining; instructing flight attendants on how to come to a compromise between passengers (rather than always accusing the one passenger of being at fault); and increase distance between seats. Following some or all of these suggestions would help all of us to get along on these long, uncomfortable flights.

I for one have already begun to cut back on travel cross country on weekends or on flights I know are packed. I think the airlines industry would do themselves a big favor if they address this before it becomes a much bigger problem and people refuse to fly because of it. Thank you for listening.
26971


DEJA VU!! I was threatened with arrest on Northwest Airlines in July of 2005! Our stories are nearly identical - with only the names and airlines changed. haha! It is hard to understand how airline personnel can knowingly side with a rude, shallow, selfish, totally lacking in compassion and human decency -- passenger!! :angry: I could never knowingly cause another passenger pain or discomfort because I can, and do, put myself into others' shoes.

My opinion is that it is easier to threaten a passenger with arrest rather than trying to act as a mediator and work out a reasonable compromise. Some of us have jobs where we have to have periodic criminal background checks; therefore, I felt it wise to back down, suffer public humiliation, and suffer for the remainder of my six-hour flight so that I would not jeopardize my job.

Passengers must unite to let airline executives know that the conditions they subject economy passengers to would be criminal if animals were subjected to the same conditions, and it is, in my opinion criminal to allow humans to suffer in these conditions as well. Not everyone has the option of flying "UP FRONT" as the cost is prohibitive for many passengers, and even if all passengers could actually afford to fly F/C, there wouldn't be enough seats to accommodate them.

Are there some possible class action suits in the future for the airlines from passengers who have been injured and/or subjected to pain while stuffed into their economy class seats? We need to do something to get their attention.

[Kairho]

Originally posted by sardine@May 23 2006, 12:10 PM
Are there some possible class action suits in the future for the airlines from passengers who have been injured and/or subjected to pain while stuffed into their economy class seats?* We need to do something to get their attention.
27031

Stop flying. As long as people keep on paying money for their coach seats there is no incentive for any airline to make changes. Ref: gasoline prices. Ref: supply/demand.

[sardine]

Originally posted by Kairho@May 23 2006, 12:28 PM
Stop flying.* As long as people keep on paying money for their coach seats there is no incentive for any airline to make changes.* Ref: gasoline prices.* Ref: supply/demand.
27034


Kairho,

Unfortunately, for many destinations flying is the only option, especially when loved ones live too far away to drive. Time constraints also apply to business travelers, moreso, actually. You know it, and airline executives know it. I don't foresee any changes in the near future, unless non-compliance to reasonable standards for human comfort and safety "earns" them some stiff penalties, e.g., lawsuits or government intervention. (It hurts to advocate for government intervention, but this is a serious enough issue to go against my core political beliefs.) I would support a reasonable increase in airfares to cover the cost of modifications to economy-class seating.

My daughter is tall and has been injured by seat backs slamming her knees, as well as becoming literally pinned in her seat from seat backs fully reclined on her knees resulting in very restricted blood flow to her legs. She has been unable to stand up on arrival several times because of the restricted blood flow. Luckily, her strong income and frequent travels permit her to fly F/C about 90% of the time now, but she is more the exception than the rule among passengers.

My latest booking, BOS/ANC, is a First Class booking for both my husband and me - paid for in USD. Ouch! I do put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I am short but claustrophobic, so when someone in front of me fully reclines a seat, I feel like I am in a casket with the lid closed. I can no longer tolerate economy class hell.

And, for the record, I have cut my gasoline consumption to about eight gallons per week.

[candyharrington]

Originally posted by Ned@May 23 2006, 06:00 AM
Candy, in all my years flying, I have never, ever, encountered a person like that unsympathetic neanderthal who sat next to you.* I know it wouldn't have been right, but I think I would have found a way to accidentally spill a sticky soda on him, right where it would have counted.* I would have thought about hot coffee, but...

Sometimes my personality leads me to be a real SOB.* I suspect the cabin might have broken out in applause when that accident occurred.

I applaud you for your self control, which I don't think many of us would have had.
27012


No, not really self control, just totally disoriented (I was *sound* asleep). Oh yes, I forgot to add that an ice cube slipped down my blouse and into my bra. My that was a special moment. Anyway I guess it's one of those times to recall when I'm sitting on the tarmac for an hour -- it could be worse -- I could be covered with orange juice.

Candy

[bodega]

Several years ago I flew CO to HNL. On the flight home, there were two women sitting directly in front of me who decided to do their nails. I was on the aisle and the women were seated in aisle seats across from one another, passing the open bottle of nail polish back and forth. The smell of the polish was strong and I was getting nauseous and light headed. I called the flight attendant who actually said the women were doing nothing wrong when I questioned the safety of the ladies actions inside the plane I was advised that if I was having a problem to move to another seat, which I did. There was no doubt in my mind that the flight attendent thought I was just a *****y passenger.

I questioned the safety of the ladies actions and the lack of concern by the flight attendent, who I mentioned by name, in a letter to CO. I got a letter back telling me that what the women did was not permitted inside an aircraft and that the flight attendant should have known that and would be contacted. I was compensated with a future flight voucher for the potentially serious situation that I encountered.

[Ned]

Originally posted by bodega@May 23 2006, 02:19 PM
Several years ago I flew CO to HNL.* On the flight home, there were two women sitting directly in front of me who decided to do their nails.* I was on the aisle and the women were seated in aisle seats across from one another, passing the open bottle of nail polish back and forth.* The smell of the polish was strong and I was getting nauseous and light headed.* I called the flight attendant who actually said the women were doing nothing wrong when I questioned the safety of the ladies actions inside the plane* I was advised that if I was having a problem to move to another seat, which I did.* There was no doubt in my mind that the flight attendent thought I was just a *****y passenger.*

I questioned the safety of the ladies actions and the lack of concern by the flight attendent, who I mentioned by name,* in a letter to CO.* I got a letter back telling me that what the women did was not permitted inside an aircraft and that the flight attendant should have known that and would be contacted.* I was compensated with a future flight voucher for the potentially serious situation that I encountered.
27058

Hi B.,

I've seen nail polish confiscated by TSA at the security check-in on two occasions. They said that as a flammable item it was prohibited, as is nail polish remover, even in checked-in luggage. They said it wasn't listed as a personal item exception. That being said I'm certain many women bring nail polish aboard planes in their carry-on with little problem as the rules seem to be enforced so inconsistently.

[bodega]

I have nail polish in my carry everytime I fly with no problem. I also carry a little bottle of 50% alcohol and 50% water for cleaning my glasses and never had a problem with TSA. I got tagged for a random inspection in Kona 2 years ago and they never took these items.

[travel]

I think we all complain about the comfort of our own seat, but when it comes to someone else's comfort, the rules are quite often different. I think on short flights (2 hours or less), we should keep our seats in their upright position, especially on those little regional jets. On longer flights, however, we should be able to recline--slowly and politely, and only to the point that it doesn't endanger others. Let's face it, there are medical reasons that a few people might need to recline. And when someone invades our space, we should say so politely and firmly--and flight attendants should stand up and help us when someone is injuring us or our computer equipment.

OF COURSE the ultimate solution is the airlines giving us a few more inches of legroom on all our planes. But I'm sure they're far too worried about their exeuctives bonuses to give up a little $$ to such nonsense.

[Ned]

Originally posted by travel@May 24 2006, 07:46 PM
I think we all complain about the comfort of our own seat, but when it comes to someone else's comfort, the rules are quite often different. I think on short flights (2 hours or less), we should keep our seats in their upright position, especially on those little regional jets. On longer flights, however, we should be able to recline--slowly and politely, and only to the point that it doesn't endanger others. Let's face it, there are medical reasons that a few people might need to recline. And when someone invades our space, we should say so politely and firmly--and flight attendants should stand up and help us when someone is injuring us or our computer equipment.

OF COURSE the ultimate solution is the airlines giving us a few more inches of legroom on all our planes. But I'm sure they're far too worried about their exeuctives bonuses to give up a little $$ to such nonsense.
27156

T., I think you're generally right about our own seat versus someone else's for many, many people. I differ from you in one area of your post.

I don't believe that anyone should have to keep their seat upright on any plane on a flight of any duration. Individual physical problems of people make sitting upright, even for a half hour very painful, the way seats are designed on most every airline and airplane these days. I can't tell you how much sitting upright hurts, due to that bend toward the last 15 percent or so of the seat, which leans that top part of the seat forward. I'm in pain within 15 minutes or so, mostly due to that horrible seat design.

This problem is why I generally fly first class, but on the smaller regional jets, first class and a decent seat are just not available. I avoid the regional planes as much as possible for flights over 2 hours. Under two hours, you just can't avoid them.

[travel]

Originally posted by Ned@May 24 2006, 07:51 PM
Individual physical problems of people make sitting upright, even for a half hour very painful, the way seats are designed on most every airline and airplane these days.* I can't tell you how much sitting upright hurts, due to that bend toward the last 15 percent or so of the seat, which leans that top part of the seat forward.* I'm in pain within 15 minutes or so, mostly due to that horrible seat design.
27162


Which is why I mentioned, "Let's face it, there are medical reasons that a few people might need to recline." I would include "sitting upright hurt[ing]" as a medical issue. I do think that, however, that many people do it just because they can. And after reading so many of your posts, I'm guessing you're NOT one of the people who slams the seat back without regard to others, anyway.

[Ned]

Originally posted by travel@May 31 2006, 10:58 AM
Which is why I mentioned, "Let's face it, there are medical reasons that a few people might need to recline." I would include "sitting upright hurt[ing]" as a medical issue. I do think that, however, that many people do it just because they can. And after reading so many of your posts, I'm guessing you're NOT one of the people who slams the seat back without regard to others, anyway.
27565

You're right, I don't slam my seat back. Unless you check, you don't know what bad is going to happen, even if you only recline a little bit. How hard is checking behind anyway? Why is it necessary to slam back?

I'm flying to LA tomorrow, FC, and I won't recline without checking there either, even though there's considerably more room to recline than economy.

[pezmanffx]

Politeness breeds politeness. Why don't we all do this. Lets all pledge to practice what we are preaching about.... "I pledge to ask the person behind me if it would be ok if I recline.

[travel]

And so will I!!!!! Maybe if enough of us do it, it will catch on.

[Jeanie821]

It's a fine idea! I'll do the same! :)

[tdew]

I don't usually recline but if I do it's just a small amount and it's a slow movement back. However, from here on, I'll "take the pledge" and ask or at least warn someone behind me that it's coming too.
Terry

[Ned]

Originally posted by Jeanie821@May 31 2006, 05:00 PM
It's a fine idea!* I'll do the same!* :)
27611

I'm not going to stop reclining to some extent, but I will continue to do it politely, and only enough to be comfortable in poorly designed seats, and only after checking behind, so that I don't foul up someone's computer, or drink, etc.

[bkstar]

I am going on a flight tomorrow and after reading this whole thread, I am going to make a mental note of the following:

COUGHING/SNEEZING/heaving/AIR VENT BLOWING - will make the
person not recline all the way (never thought of doing those things :) )

Always check with the person behind you or at least look behind before
reclining (I always look to see if there is someone behind me)

Check in online and see if you can get the coveted exit row.


Happy flying to all - hopefully tomorrows flight wont be packed!

b

[luv2travel]

Just my .02..My hubby and I were on a flight from Spain to Phily a few weeks ago, and the guy in front of us had a seat that when he reclined it went all the way back into my hubby's lap. The seat was broken..I had to move seat's, the flight attnd. had to come over and say something to the guy, he never said a word to us..I could not believe it..Even after I had to move, and she put the chair back up, he put it back again..So rude!!
When we got ready to land I just pushed the chair up to sit down and fill out the customs form with my hubby, as this guy did not once say sorry for keeping you and your wife apart during the flight..Oh well I guess 2 wrongs don't make a right..I'm sorry Mr. rude guy, that you had to lay down and spoil my flight...... ;)

[Kairho]

If his seat was broken I believe it should have been bad-ordered and he the one to move. I'll have to look into that.

[sardine]

...no need, on my part, to make a pledge to ask permission to recline my seat.

How rude? No. I NEVER recline my seat - never, ever never!!!

I suffer greatly when a seat is reclined in front of me; therefore, I will not subject anyone else to any of the many ways in which a reclined seat back can make a flight the proverbial "flight from Hell". Knowingly inflicting pain on another person would only bring about personal "pain" for me, knowing that I was the cause of someone else's discomfort.

If someone asked my permission to recline a seat, I would ask the person to go no farther than the halfway point, but a little less would be better, if possible. With so many demanding their "rights" and others having legitimate reasons to recline, compromise is the only way to survive in the steerage cabins of today.

Are there any of you militant "recliners" willing to agree to a compromise?

Ultimately, the airlines need to make some changes, but as I and REDJIM have stated, we mostly compain to each other and don't take airline executives to task for allowing such horribly cramped conditions to exist in economy class cabins. :(

I encourage eveyone to write letters stating your opinions re: the cramped conditions :angry: in economy to the CEO's of the Big Six.

[Rich G-H]

This is a repeat forum and it seems as if the airline executives should be forced to sit in economy and suffer the bruised knee syndrome and maybe then we would see a reduction in the degree of recline. I'm a firm beleiver in the Native American saying that you should walk a mile in my moccasins. Ailine execs: Put on my shoes for a trip in steerage.

Those who believe they have the right to recline will always be among us and just because the seat reclines does NOT mean that you should recline it to the fullest! My speedometer indicates that my car will do 120 mph but I would never think of driving at that speed. Just because you CAN does not mean you SHOULD. Common courtesy would be nice and I also do not recline if there is someone behind me. I have found that forcing my knees against the seatback when I perceive the recliner about to strike works. However, on one flight the guy in front kept on bouncing and forcing the seat back that I thought he was going to have a heart attack. I won that round and he thought that the seat was broken. If you miss your opportunity at the beginning of the flight and you drop your guard the recliner will win. Isn't it terrible the lengths we go through to "enjoy" a flight. Just give me a comfortable seat with sufficient personal space and I'll be happy!

[glorya14]

No, seats should not be adjusted or adjustable in steerage, oh excuse me, I mean in coach class. How many times have I flown with the seatback in front of me sitting almost in my lap thereby restricting my movements. I am growing angrier by the minute just thinking of it and my next plane ride anticipatign the worst.

[Ned]

Originally posted by glorya14@Jun 2 2006, 04:46 PM
No, seats should not be adjusted or adjustable in steerage, oh excuse me, I mean in coach class.* How many times have I flown with the seatback in front of me sitting almost in my lap thereby restricting my movements.* I am growing angrier by the minute just thinking of it and my next plane ride anticipatign the worst.
27754

G., most aircraft seats are very poorly designed with that darn top 15% of the seat lunging forward, that serious affects many of us with bad backs and arthritis. Sitting upright in those seats for any length of time is excruciatingly painful.

I always recline my seat as soon as permitted. I only recline it about halfway, but without that recline I would be in agony. This is true for more people than you would think.

I am acutely aware of the problems with seat recline and mitigate the problem to the extent possible, but a ban on reclining the seat as long as its design is so poor would be unfair and ill advised. Better the airlines should make economy more comfortable and stop herding the passengers in the plane like cattle. I take that back, cattle are probably treated better.

[Swtgypsy]

I have a story about seat reclining. My husband I were flying back from Florida on Christmas Day last year and we were on a non-stop flight to San Francisco. We had 2 ladies in front of us and they both had their seats in the reclined postion before we had even gotten to our seats. I had asked the ladies if they could put their seats upright just until we settled in. One lady said fine, the other ingnored us. Somewhere in the next 5 minutes the 2 ladies were arguing and the nice lady got up and found another seat and we were left with the seat recliner lady. The flight got on it's way and the seat recliner lady put BOTH seats back (since no one else wanted to sit next to her...which should of clued me in) laid down across the 2 seats, covered herself with a blanket and went to sleep. My husband was crushed in his seat next to the window and I was lucky enough to be able to stretch my legs in the isle. Over half way through the flight seat recliner lady got up and left her seats and left them in the redlined postion. My husband then took the opportunity to push the seat in front of him in the upright postion and stretch a little himself. I continued to read not thinking too much about it. I was tired and just wanted to get home. Seat recliner lady came back, crawled back under her blanket and went back to sleep. She never commented on the seat postion, never put it back so my husband was pleased for the rest of the flight. But the story doesn't end there. The flight lands in SFO and seat recliner lady gets up and starts pulling her stuff from above and I notice she is doing this very agressively. In my work I deal with people who can be very irrational so I really start to notice she is moving very fast and is anxious. My husband I are just sitting in our seats since we are in the back of the plane and there is a long line to get off. I am tired, in pain (from falling of a scooter in Miami but that is another story!) cranky because I am no longer on my cruise and just waiting to get off the plane...when all of sudden seat recliner lady turns around, throws a package of crackers right at MY head, hits me and calls ME a b@&%#h for putting her seat up!! Well, mind you I work with people who can be unresonable, I am not a violent person, I hate confortation so I pick up the crackers and wing them back at her and ping her in the back of the head and let out "b@&%#h". I don't know what came over me! She proceeded to ignore me at that point and moved as quickly as she could through the line. Now what gets me it wasn't even ME who put her seat up but my husband! Now I know he would of defended me given the chance but the crackers were flying, words were being said and I think he thought it best to just leave it alone at that point.

I did see seat recliner lady at baggage way on the other side and told my husband keep me away from her...I was still armed with my snack pack from the flight.

So the moral of the story is...you never know who you are flying with and that person in front of you reclining their seat into your lap could be crazy so be careful and always ask for a couple extra packages of crackers you never know when you might need them.

[deangreenhoe]

I was still armed with my snack pack from the flight.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Okay, THAT was funny.

I have been hit while in the air by a flying fork. It was thrown by someone I was traveling with sitting 3 rows behind me. The very act of her being willing to do so explains why I chose not to sit with her on the return flight of our weekend getaway.

The hard bagel upside the head incident was just a silly act of air rage I think and came from a stranger. I'm assuming it was just randomly tossed and not meant specifically for me. I was in the mood to fling my bagel as well after nearly breaking a tooth on it. :P

[Jeanie821]

Originally posted by Swtgypsy@Jun 3 2006, 11:05 AM
I have a story about seat reclining. My husband I were flying back from Florida on Christmas Day last year and we were on a non-stop flight to San Francisco. We had 2 ladies in front of us and they both had their seats in the reclined postion before we had even gotten to our seats. I had asked the ladies if they could put their seats upright just until we settled in. One lady said fine, the other ingnored us. Somewhere in the next 5 minutes the 2 ladies were arguing and the nice lady got up and found another seat and we were left with the seat recliner lady. The flight got on it's way and the seat recliner lady put BOTH seats back (since no one else wanted to sit next to her...which should of clued me in) laid down across the 2 seats, covered herself with a blanket and went to sleep. My husband was crushed in his seat next to the window and I was lucky enough to be able to stretch my legs in the isle. Over half way through the flight seat recliner lady got up and left her seats and left them in the redlined postion. My husband then took the opportunity to push the seat in front of him in the upright postion and stretch a little himself. I continued to read not thinking too much about it. I was tired and just wanted to get home. Seat recliner lady came back, crawled back under her blanket and went back to sleep. She never commented on the seat postion, never put it back so my husband was pleased for the rest of the flight. But the story doesn't end there. The flight lands in SFO and seat recliner lady gets up and starts pulling her stuff from above and I notice she is doing this very agressively. In my work I deal with people who can be very irrational so I really start to notice she is moving very fast and is anxious. My husband I are just sitting in our seats since we are in the back of the plane and there is a long line to get off. I am tired, in pain (from falling of a scooter in Miami but that is another story!) cranky because I am no longer on my cruise and just waiting to get off the plane...when all of sudden seat recliner lady turns around, throws a package of crackers right at MY head, hits me and calls ME a b@&%#h for putting her seat up!! Well, mind you I work with people who can be unresonable, I am not a violent person, I hate confortation so I pick up the crackers and wing them back at her and ping her in the back of the head and let out "b@&%#h". I don't know what came over me! She proceeded to ignore me at that point and moved as quickly as she could through the line. Now what gets me it wasn't even ME who put her seat up but my husband! Now I know he would of defended me given the chance but the crackers were flying, words were being said and I think he thought it best to just leave it alone at that point.

I did see seat recliner lady at baggage way on the other side and told my husband keep me away from her...I was still armed with my snack pack from the flight.

So the moral of the story is...you never know who you are flying with and that person in front of you reclining their seat into your lap could be crazy so be careful and always ask for a couple extra packages of crackers you never know when you might need them.
27773


Not that there was much time to report her to anyone... but did you report the
b@&%#h to anyone, by any chance?

BTW - that's why I like to carry a nice, heavy book. That two-inch-thick study Bible isn't just for my reading pleasure - it's also for "smiting"!

[BarkingLeopard]

Originally posted by Jeanie821@Jun 3 2006, 04:51 PM
BTW - that's why I like to carry a nice, heavy book.* That two-inch-thick study Bible isn't just for my reading pleasure - it's also for "smiting"!
27782


Very nice, Jeanie. That's the best reason yet to bring a hardcover, not paperback book on board. Swinging a two-pound book or "accidentally" letting it whack someone as you walk by them in the aisle is a great idea, though one that must be done with great thought. Perhaps the same book would also work well as a door-knocker against the reclined seat in front of you? :lol:

[Annette]

Actually you can use a book to wedge in between the back of the seat in front of you and back bar of your tray. That'll keep it from reclining too far. A large water bottle works too.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Annette@Jun 4 2006, 01:54 AM
Actually you can use a book to wedge in between the back of the seat in front of you and back bar of your tray.* That'll keep it from reclining too far.* A large water bottle works too.
27793

Annette, someone did that to a guy sitting on the other side of the aisle from me on a recent flight to Houston. A fist fight almost ensued. The flight attendant told the passenger who tried to block the seat in front from reclining, that if he tried it again they'd have him arrested in Houston for disrupting the flight. I have no idea if that would have happened, if he tried it again, but I know if someone tried that on my seat, I would take swift action such as confiscating the book and giving it to the FA.

Whether or not people "should" recline their seat and how much they should recline their seat is a matter of the moral standards and consideration of the person in the seat, period. Since the airlines have made it possible to recline the seats they have clearly implied that passengers have the "right" to do it, and no one has the right to prevent them from doing it. While I find the "recline" behavior of many passengers really obnoxious, I would submit they have that right.

I "always" recline my seat, and I do mean "always." If I don't recline my seat I am in great pain within 15 minutes or so, sitting upright. I recline about half-way, which is sufficient for me. Most of the time I fly FC which alleviates the problem as the seats are much further apart, more comfortable, etc. (Sometimes that doesn't even work. The seat movement was problematic on my flight to LA a few days ago, as the seat was not functioning properly, and essentially was either upright, or all the way back. If I moved it part way back, within a couple of minutes it slid all the way back. Several times I moved it upright during the flight so the ladies behind me could easily get out to the lavatory.)

Some have intimated that if you want to fully recline then go to FC. I'm lucky, I fly enough that I get free upgrades (really tough to get these days) and I have a lot of miles to use to upgrade for long flights (more than 2 hours) to ensure I'm in FC. Some folks can't do that. They neither have the money or points or both. On international flights I always fly business or first class so that I can recline my seat to flat or as flat as possible and sleep through as much as the flight as possbile, unless I'm working on something for the trip. Everyone can't afford that.

The answer to the problem is the airlines have to design the cabin seating a whole lot better. Right now, about the only things they think about are color scheme and how many seats they can cram in. If they cared about passenger comfort, the seats themselves and the cabins would have a different design. The airline industry is a "Mass Transit" industry, with the emphasis on "Mass."

[stephen_s]

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