Dollar Rentacar Scam?

[nightowltom]

I rent from Dollar quite a bit because I like Chrysler products but have never run into the situation I was just exposed to.

I flew down to Orlando where I rented from Dollar. When I picked up the car, I spent more than 5 minutes just looking at the outside for any problems--at 9:30 at night in a dimly lit parking garage--knowing how fussy Dollar and Enterprise can be about their cars. I noted all the problems (there were a lot for a car with only 13,000 miles on it but that's typical in a tourist town) and had the clerk in the booth sign off on the inspection slip and was on my way.

All was routine until I returned. While taking out my luggage, I noticed the clerk was actually getting down on his knees looking for problems--weird but I let it go.
I approached him for my receipt and he brought me to the hood of the car where he had a form already for my signature. "Just sign here and you're on your way" was all he said. I looked at the form and it was an accident report. Big red flags went up and I asked him what he was up to. He said there's a scratch, it was probably there but I need to just fill out this form and I can be on my way.

Instead of signing, I pulled out my copy of the inspection slip and showed him I noted several scratches and he needed to show me the problem. He took me to bumper wraparound section where he pointed out a 2-3 inch thin scratch. He asked to get a look at my slip and checked it over for my reported scratches. He again tried to get me to sign the form. I said no--there was no accident.

I asked for a manager. He said I had to sign the form. I said he couldn't make me sign anything and to get a manager. When he again called no one, I told him, "Come on, let's take this inside to the front desk where I can find a manager for you." He then called someone saying he "needed backup". A woman came over, he showed her the form and explained how difficult I was being. She looked at the scratch and said it wasn't worth fighting over. She told me to go. I said I still didn't have a receipt and wanted my copy of the inspection slip back. She told the clerk to give me the receipt which he'd been holding in his hand. He said something quietly to a car jockey and the jockey got in to move the car. I asked about my slip. The woman said it was the proof that I was okay. I said, "I know--and you have both copies." I asked louder, "Where's the slip--I want it back now." She yelled, "It's in the car--take it and just go!" The car had started to move and I yelled at the driver to hold it right there. The clerk had stuck my slip onto the dash and told his car jockey to get the car out of there.

I'm cynical by nature but it appears to me that this franchise operator (Orlando is not owned by Dollar itself) was looking for someone to pay for some paint touch up for a car about to be taken out of service and sold. I thought afterwards that nothing like this ever happens to me when I have two cases and look like a businessman. But this time my wife and I were on vacation and had 6 pieces of luggage and it looks to me like there was a scam looking to take advantage of tourists who maybe didn't know any better and thought they would get in trouble if they didn't sign a trumped up accident report only to be sent a bill a month later.

Has anyone else run into this?

[stephen_s]

I had it happen to me in Toronto with Avis. When I went out, not a scratch was on the car. When I returned the car (and I didn't notice this at all), it looks like someone scratched up the trunk of the car.

Luckily, and this is why I always get it, I got the LDW so Avis said to not worry about it.

People may think I'm stupid for getting the LDW, but I always get it, just in case. I don't know how much my insurance or credit car will cover for loss.

[nightowltom]

Originally posted by stephen_s@Jan 9 2006, 11:12 PM
I had it happen to me in Toronto with Avis.* When I went out, not a scratch was on the car.* When I returned the car (and I didn't notice this at all), it looks like someone scratched up the trunk of the car.

Luckily, and this is why I always get it, I got the LDW so Avis said to not worry about it.

People may think I'm stupid for getting the LDW, but I always get it, just in case.* I don't know how much my insurance or credit car will cover for loss.
17343


That's not what happened to me. There were no new scratches on the car.

As for the ldw, it's not a good deal if you rent more than a few times a year. Make sure your own auto insurance covers collision, fire, theft and vandalism, glass and liablility for people and property. Then find a credit card that offers free rental car insurance as a perk, call and have them mail out the policy and make sure how high they'll cover (mine will only cover a car that's worth $50,000 or less so I decline some upgrades) and, very important, covers loss of use. The rental companies are known for being abusive with what they charge while the car is out of service being repaired should you get into an accident.

Once you have that, you're fully covered and you can safely decline coverages.

[REDJIM]

I'm in sympathy with you nightowl.

I was driving an Enterprise minivan and backed into a five day old Beemer that was so close to my rear bumper at a stop sign, I couldn't see it in either the inside rear view mirror or the outside rear view mirrors. At about three miles per hour at impact, I crushed his ENTIRE front clip: Fascia, Grille, Headlamps(so much for stout German engineering). The minivan I was driving had a noticible but slight paint scratch on the rear bumber, and no deformation. We called the local cops, got an accident report and I faxed that to my insurance agent.

Three days later I returned the rental, and was subjected to a thorough interrogation by the agent in charge. Seems the BMW owner carried a grudge that prompted him to contact Enterprise. My rental agent informed me that I would have to pay "up to $800" to repair the bumper. My response was: "Go p*ss up a rope." I called my auto insurance agent and was informed that they had already settled with the Beemer's insurance carrier AND Enterprise.

For approximately three weeks after my return of the rental, Enterprise Corporate Claims called me almost daily, asking when I was going to remit them the $800. There were some amusing comments uttered on my side; but they finally got fatigued by my comic, caustic responses and stopped calling me.

BTW...I was a frequent Enterprise renter. Then. Not any longer.

Fight anyone who wants to pick your pocket!

[Ned]

Originally posted by REDJIM@Jan 10 2006, 04:59 AM
I'm in sympathy with you nightowl...

...BTW...I was a frequent Enterprise renter. Then. Not any longer.

Fight anyone who wants to pick your pocket!
17357

Amen REDJIM!

[clarkef]

I thought I'd heard it all, but p*ss up a rope is a new one on me.

Seriously thought, nightowltown was correct it not signing the papers. Never sign anything that you are uncomfortable with and always keep your copies of all documents.

[missalf]

Whad'ya think of this idea -- why don't we start a forum on this board called the Wall of Shame. When somebody gets hosed, they post the details, resolution (if any) and then we all know to watch out? Right now you have to sort though individual threads to find out this info.

Think this'd work????
Oh, and by the way, NightOwlTom,
For approximately three weeks after my return of the rental, Enterprise Corporate Claims called me almost daily, asking when I was going to remit them the $800. There were some amusing comments uttered on my side; but they finally got fatigued by my comic, caustic responses and stopped calling me.
Wouldn't that constitute harassment? My understanding is that if you tell an agency once never to call you again they have to abide by that or they can be sued. Also, did you double-check that they didn't do anything to your credit history (Don't know if that's possible, but if they had a big enough grudge against you to call you for three weeks straight they might find a way).

[REDJIM]

Originally posted by missalf@Jan 22 2006, 10:58 AM
Whad'ya think of this idea -- why don't we start a forum on this board called the Wall of Shame.* When somebody gets hosed, they post the details, resolution (if any) and then we all know to watch out?* Right now you have to sort though individual threads to find out this info.

Think this'd work????
Oh, and by the way, NightOwlTom,

Wouldn't that constitute harassment?* My understanding is that if you tell an agency once never to call you again they have to abide by that or they can be sued.* Also, did you double-check that they didn't do anything to your credit history (Don't know if that's possible, but if they had a big enough grudge against you to call you for three weeks straight they might find a way).
18399


Thanks for the observation, missalf. Did not think to do that; believing that my insurer had run all the interference. Will make time to check with the reporting agencies next week. Thanks, again.

[tdew]

Missalf, I like the Wall of Shame idea.



Wonder about the harrassment issue though - IF a company IS owed an amount, it wouldn't seem right that a debtor could just tell them not to call anymore - would it? Seems like an easy way out for many, many people.

[Ned]

Originally posted by tdew@Jan 22 2006, 01:02 PM
Missalf, I like the Wall of Shame idea.*
Wonder about the harrassment issue though - IF a company IS owed an amount, it wouldn't seem right that a debtor could just tell them not to call anymore* - would it?* Seems like an easy way out for many, many people.
18405

The Wall of Shame sounds like a neat idea. I think it would have to have sub categories such as Airlines, Hotels, Car Rentals, Cruiselines, etc. That would make it easier to keep track of the problems posted.

[Ned]

Originally posted by tdew@Jan 22 2006, 01:02 PM
Missalf, I like the Wall of Shame idea.*
Wonder about the harrassment issue though - IF a company IS owed an amount, it wouldn't seem right that a debtor could just tell them not to call anymore* - would it?* Seems like an easy way out for many, many people.
18405

I'm not sure about your legal ability to stop calls from a debtor (I think we need a Tripso member who's an attorney to comment here), but even if you can stop the calls, the debtor still has many options, including small claims court and postal mail to try to collect the debt.

[missalf]

As far as legalities go, I'm a geek not a lawyer, but I do know that our local news programs have carried lots of consumer complaint-type topics on that area and supposedly if you tell a debt collector never to call again they have to abide by your wishes. Now, does that apply to other areas, dunno. But, since the themes are similar, I'd think the laws would be too.

[clarkef]

Since I'm a business attorney, I guess I'll take up the challenge. Federal law permits the ORIGINAL creditor to make reasonable calls to collect a debt. Most things are considered reasonable including calling you at work, on Sundays, etc. You can't call at 3am, nor speak about the debt to a parent, boss, etc.

However, if the debt is sold to a THIRD PARTY collector, they have to cease nearly all communications if instructed to by the debtor, whereas the original creditor is not bound by that rule.

[Ned]

Originally posted by clarkef@Feb 2 2006, 04:15 AM
Since I'm a business attorney, I guess I'll take up the challenge.* Federal law permits the ORIGINAL creditor to make reasonable calls to collect a debt.* Most things are considered reasonable including calling you at work, on Sundays, etc. You can't call at 3am, nor speak about the debt to a parent, boss, etc.

However, if the debt is sold to a THIRD PARTY collector, they have to cease nearly all communications if instructed to by the debtor, whereas the original creditor is not bound by that rule.
19326

Thanks Clarke. We finally have an answer we can depend on.

[candyharrington]

Even better than refusing to sign the documents is to take them and write "Refused to sign" on the signature line. I've done this for things that i have disputed, as someone can just come in a forge your signature.

BTW, I have excellent rental car coverage through my AARP Hartford policy and my Amex Gold Card (including loss of use). I rent often and never take any extra insurance. But again, it's all about knowing your coverage. It never hurts to check your policy yearly, even if you think you know what your coverage really is. Typos happen:)

Candy

[Cindy]

I love this "Wall of Shame idea!!"
Can we do that??
I would never sign anything I didn't agree with and believe me I have been there, done that..We were in an airport buyout and they always tried to make you sign things under duress..Read everything before you sign and always know that you NEVER have to sign anything you don't agree with..

[clarkef]

Originally posted by candyharrington@Apr 12 2006, 06:13 PM
Even better than refusing to sign the documents is to take them and write "Refused to sign" on the signature line. I've done this for things that i have disputed, as someone can just come in a forge your signature.

Candy
24361


Good idea. One point though. If the company forges your signature, you can easily prove that with a handwriting expert, you basically win your case automatically as well as probably a good sum of money for the fraud.

[StKnowhere]

We received a letter from Dollar Rental Car two weeks after returning our rental saying they found a chip on the passenger side of the windshield of the vehicle and notified us the windshield would have to be replaced.

This was found sometime after after we returned the car. No chip was noticed by us before or after driving the vehicle for a week. My wife can spot a speck of dust from 30 yards so I'm confident it was not in her line of sight.

They immediately turned it over to a third party collector. Charges claimed include a $100 processing fee, $230 for the windshield plus $189 for 2 days for loss of use. They claim the extra charges are in a contract we never saw or signed.

We are disputing the claim so we will see where this goes.

We've used the particular rental location regularly for business and pleasure for several years. Now Dollar has lost our business forever over a stone chip that should have cost $50 and one hour to repair.

[Ned]

Originally posted by StKnowhere@Jun 13 2006, 10:58 PM
We received a letter from Dollar Rental Car two weeks after returning our rental saying they found a chip on the passenger side of the windshield of the vehicle and notified us the windshield would have to be replaced...

...We've used the particular rental location regularly for business and pleasure for several years. Now Dollar has lost our business forever over a stone chip that should have cost $50 and one hour to repair.
28874

Welcome to Tripso.

Did you get a receipt when you turned in the car which indicates no damage?

[StKnowhere]

Thanks for the welcome Ned, nice forum you'all have here, just discovered it today.

Of course we did not receive a receipt when returning the car -- never have needed one before.

It gets more interesting. The Check-in slip from the following renter was provided as proof of damage along with the invoice from the repair. The interesting part is the dates on the rental slip indicates this driver drove the car the dates the vehicle was claimed to be out of service and repaired. It pays to ask questions. :lol:

Originally posted by Ned@Jun 13 2006, 11:08 PM
Welcome to Tripso.

Did you get a receipt when you turned in the car which indicates no damage?
28875

[bodega]

We rent cars several times a year and we always get a receipt, as once they hand that to you, they are again responsible. Many car companies are holding renters responsible for damage to a car if it is returned after hours and something happens. Why do you not get a receipts?

[stacynan]

I'm presenting this liability question to a travel attorney. I'll let you know if he responds.

[stacynan]

His response was:

Sorry, I don't help consumers with their legal issues.
------
I'm sure your attorney could answer your question. My guess is the rental car company would have the burden of proof to show the damage happened while you had possession of the car.

[travel]

I try not to return cars after hours for this very reason. In the unlikely event that I have to do that, however, I take pictures of the car (I always travel with a digital camera, so this is easy). With a time and date stamp on the pics, it's a little harder for them to claim damage would be my fault. I also tell them when I pick up the car that I will take pictures when I return, so this might prevent anyone with questionable ethics from trying to blame something on me.

[Ned]

Originally posted by travel@Jun 14 2006, 10:54 AM
I try not to return cars after hours for this very reason. In the unlikely event that I have to do that, however, I take pictures of the car (I always travel with a digital camera, so this is easy). With a time and date stamp on the pics, it's a little harder for them to claim damage would be my fault. I also tell them when I pick up the car that I will take pictures when I return, so this might prevent anyone with questionable ethics from trying to blame something on me.
28916

I do the same, but I do one more thing too. I take photos of the car before I take it. I take those photos right in front of the rental agent, so he/she sees me do it. That way I have a record of previous damage. That proved very useful when I returned my rental at LAX a couple of weeks ago. There was a bad gouge in the rear bumper the intake guy said wasn't noted when I took the car. (It was.) I showed him the photo I took when I took the car, and that was the end of that.