Grand Canyon

[AaronK]

Hi all.

I'm going to be flying out to Las Vegas for a group get together in April. The get together will last from Friday through Monday. I plan on getting in on Thursday.

I am thinking of flying in early and possibly going out to the Grand Canyon for a day or so. As I've not been there before, would I be doing myself a disservice if I were to fly in to Las Vegas on Tuesday, drive to Flagstaff/Grand Canyon, spend Wednesday at the Grand Canyon, and then drive back to Las Vegas on Thursday? I'm trying to limit the time off from work to 5 days, otherwise I'd fly out Monday and spend Tuesday and Wednesday at the Grand Canyon.

Thanks all.

Aaron

[deangreenhoe]

Extremely doable, Aaron. That's even a relatively leisurely pace, at least compared to my visit this past August with my nephew in tow.

I flew into Vegas early, rented a car, drove to St. George Utah, checked into a Holiday Inn, then visited both Cedar Breaks and Zion that afternoon/evening.

Next day, drove back through Zion to see it at sunrise, went around the north side and visited the Grand Canyon on the south rim for a few hours, had a late lunch in the village, continued on to Flagstaff, checked into the hotel, then drove down to Sedona for dinner with friends.

Third day, drove to Las Vegas via Oatman and the scenic Gold Road (old Route 66,) lunch in Laughlin, a visit to Hoover Dam, in our hotel in Las Vegas by mid afternoon.

The plans were to spend more time at the Grand Canyon on day #3, then overnight in Sedona before heading to Las Vegas. But we hit the monsoons with pouring rain, plus half the overlooks on the south rim of the canyon were closed because of fires, so we abandoned Arizona a day earlier than planned. Even including all of that, we had 4-5 hours at the Grand Canyon which was more than enough for my teen-aged nephew. You know how that goes. :rolleyes:

It's a pretty quick trip to/from Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon from Las Vegas. You'll have time to kill - I'd bop down to Sedona on one of those afternoons/evenings as well.

[Ned]

Hi Aaron,

At this time of the year, you'll definitely be going to the South Rim. The North Rim is closed. Even so, it can be snowy and cold at the South Rim. When we were there a few years ago in early March, the temp was at 5°F at night, and 22°F during the day.

We had a great time there at essentially the same time of year you'll be there. The snow on the Canyon makes it even more spectacular than it normally is. Driving wasn't a particular problem, but it did take most of the day to get from Vegas to the El Tovar Hotel (http://www.grandcanyonlodges.com/el-tovar-409.html), run by Xanterra, for the Grand Canyon National Park, located right at the South Rim in Grand Canyon Village. You walk out of the hotel, 300 feet and you're standing right at the edge of the rim. Don't forget to be at the edge at sunset. What a site! There are other accommodations right there, including the Bright Angel and Thunderbird Lodges, but if you can stay at the El Tovar, that's the place to stay. Don't stay in Flagstaff. It's too far away and you'll waste too much time going to the Canyon from there. Stay in the Park.

Driving to the South Rim from Vegas, if you haven't been to the Hoover Dam, don't forget to stop there, either going or on the way back, and take the tour to the bottom of the Dam.

There are many views of the South Rim to explore. One of the things you definitely want to do is take the Desert View Drive and keep stopping at the various view stops (there is parking) which ends at the Desert View Watch Tower. Definitely check out the Grand Canyon National Park web site (http://www.nps.gov/grca/).

If you have time, you can take Hermit Road via your car from the Grand Canyon Village for the eight mile, one-way trip. Allow at least two hours for the round trip. You'll have tremendous views of the river at Hopi, Mohave, and Pima Points and the Hermits Rest historic landmark with a view of the river. (In summer there is a free shuttle for the road as it's closed to private cars then.)

I would recommend 2 nights there. The first night after you get there, so you're ready to have a full day there, and the second so you have a full day to explore the South Rim. You can go back to Vegas the next morning after breakfast.

You can go back another year in the summer and enjoy the mule rides, and other goodies at the Grand Canyon that are only available in the summer.

Let me know if you have more questions.

Hi all.

I'm going to be flying out to Las Vegas for a group get together in April. The get together will last from Friday through Monday. I plan on getting in on Thursday.

I am thinking of flying in early and possibly going out to the Grand Canyon for a day or so. As I've not been there before, would I be doing myself a disservice if I were to fly in to Las Vegas on Tuesday, drive to Flagstaff/Grand Canyon, spend Wednesday at the Grand Canyon, and then drive back to Las Vegas on Thursday? I'm trying to limit the time off from work to 5 days, otherwise I'd fly out Monday and spend Tuesday and Wednesday at the Grand Canyon.

Thanks all.

Aaron

[Ned]

Dean, I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, but while I agree that Cedar Breaks and Zion are great, as is the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam, after visiting Sedona, I don't understand everyone's fascination with it is. What's the attraction of Sedona? We visited it on our last trip to Vegas, when we went primarily after Vegas to see Grand Canyon and Monument Valley (another spectacular sight). We stayed overnight there and frankly, left as soon as possible the next day. The place left us cold.

By the way, when we visited the Grand Canyon, there is no doubt in my mind that staying in the Park was a great decision, as opposed to "near-by" locations such as Flagstaff, which is actually about 80 miles from the Park.

So you know, Cedar Breaks Road, and many of the other roads to Cedar Breaks National Monument are now closed. Plus all Cedar Breaks visitor facilities are closed until late May.

From the National Park Service:Cedar Breaks National Monument, Utah. The section of Utah Highway 148 through Cedar Breaks National Monument that connects Utah Highways 14 and 143 has been closed for the winter. According to park Superintendent Paul Roelandt, the storm that hit southern Utah over the weekend brought high winds and snow that caused heavy drifting across the Cedar Breaks Scenic Drive, making the road impassable. “We have reached that time of year when expected heavy snow accumulations and constant drifting of snow across the road have made it unsafe to keep the road open,” Roelandt said.

The portion of Highway 143 through Cedar Breaks National Monument connecting Panguitch with Brian Head and Parowan will remain open throughout the winter, except during and immediately after heavy snowstorms and during periods of blowing snow.I didn't call them, but I noticed on the Weather Channel that the area just had a couple of days of heavy snow. I doubt any of the roads to Cedar Breaks are open at this time. Personally, at this time of the year, with limited time I would skip the area. It's taking a huge chance to try to go there.

Extremely doable, Aaron. That's even a relatively leisurely pace, at least compared to my visit this past August with my nephew in tow.

I flew into Vegas early, rented a car, drove to St. George Utah, checked into a Holiday Inn, then visited both Cedar Breaks and Zion that afternoon/evening.

Next day, drove back through Zion to see it at sunrise, went around the north side and visited the Grand Canyon on the south rim for a few hours, had a late lunch in the village, continued on to Flagstaff, checked into the hotel, then drove down to Sedona for dinner with friends.

Third day, drove to Las Vegas via Oatman and the scenic Gold Road (old Route 66,) lunch in Laughlin, a visit to Hoover Dam, in our hotel in Las Vegas by mid afternoon.

The plans were to spend more time at the Grand Canyon on day #3, then overnight in Sedona before heading to Las Vegas. But we hit the monsoons with pouring rain, plus half the overlooks on the south rim of the canyon were closed because of fires, so we abandoned Arizona a day earlier than planned. Even including all of that, we had 4-5 hours at the Grand Canyon which was more than enough for my teen-aged nephew. You know how that goes. :rolleyes:

It's a pretty quick trip to/from Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon from Las Vegas. You'll have time to kill - I'd bop down to Sedona on one of those afternoons/evenings as well.

[AaronK]

My only reason for Flagstaff was to be in "civilization". Since I haven't made my mind up on the trip yet, I have a feeling that in park reservations may be extremely difficult to get when I go to book everything. My dad went to the Grand Canyon a couple of years ago and stayed in Flagstaff. He said the drive wasn't too bad.

I just want to make sure that the one full day is enough to see the park and enjoy it, and not want to be kicking myself for only spending one day.

[Ned]

Don't give up on staying in the park without trying. If you're going to do it, I would try as soon as possible, as visitor traffic starts to pick up in April, and is full out by the middle of May. We got our El Tovar reservations for a March visit, only a month before we went. This is not a prime time for Grand Canyon visits, so there might be rooms available in the hotel or one of the lodges, which are in spitting distance of the hotel. The restaurant in the hotel is quite nice. Reservations are needed. We made our reservations for dinner as soon as they would take them.

It takes about an hour and three quarters to drive from Flagstaff to the South Rim at that time of year. Later on, it takes longer as traffic starts getting bad.

If you were going a couple of months later, a full day would definitely not be enough, as so many more activities would be available and comfortable (It still can be cold there in April, and I don't know how much you like hiking and other outdoor activites), but in my opinion, at that time of year, you can do it in a day, and get a wonderful taste of the Canyon which is very much worth it. In warmer weather, for example, in addition to the drives I mentioned, you could take a mule ride (They are offered year round from the South Rim, but you generally need to book them at least 6 months in advance, for the winter,10-13 months in advance for the summer, and the weather is better starting in May for the ride.), a helicopter tour, river trips (they are the best), wonderful day and overnight hikes, etc. You could do some hiking, but if snow is still on the ground or it's wet, it's dicey.

Tell me what you like to do, and I can better offer advice on how much time I would advise you to take there.

My only reason for Flagstaff was to be in "civilization". Since I haven't made my mind up on the trip yet, I have a feeling that in park reservations may be extremely difficult to get when I go to book everything. My dad went to the Grand Canyon a couple of years ago and stayed in Flagstaff. He said the drive wasn't too bad.

I just want to make sure that the one full day is enough to see the park and enjoy it, and not want to be kicking myself for only spending one day.

[deangreenhoe]

I wasn't recommending that Aaron visit Cedar Breaks, or even Zion, Ned. Although Zion can have good weather in April - I've been there in March in short sleeves. I was just recounting what I did last August.

Sedona has some of the most unique and stunning scenery in the country. The drive down into Oak Creek Canyon is breathtaking, that stretch of U.S. 89 consistently rated as one of the top scenic drives in America. This past summer we pulled off the road and took some specatular photos of a herd of elk grazing along the highway.

If you didn't find something of an intersting nature in Sedona, you didn't dig deep enough. Yes, it's become extremely developed, far more than when I started going there in the late 70s/early 80s. But if you look beyond the town center, what made it a popular destination still remains.

I've only been going to that part of the country once or twice a year for over two decades. But evidently you know it better, so I digress.

[Ned]

No, I don't know it better. I've only been to Sedona that one time, but I just didn't see anything there out of the ordinary. The scenery getting there and leaving there was great. It was just Sedona, the town, that many here in PHL raved about, that left us cold. Hence my question.

With regard to Cedar Breaks, I just wanted to make sure that Aaron was aware of the weather this time of year.

I love Zion. I've been there about 8 times and look forward to visiting again. We've been planning a trip in the area for next April or May (AZ, UT, NM, WY). We hope to take about three weeks, if my clients will permit it. Bryce is another big favorite of mine, as well as Grand Teton National Park and Monument Valley, along with Mystery Valley next door, is wonderful. I love to go horseback riding in Grand Teton National Park. We love Glen Canyon and Arches as well. We've hiked extensively in those parks.

Somehow we've missed Dinosaur, but hope to correct that next year. Have you ever been there? Is it as good as it sounds?

I wasn't recommending that Aaron visit Cedar Breaks, or even Zion, Ned. Although Zion can have good weather in April - I've been there in March in short sleeves. I was just recounting what I did last August.

Sedona has some of the most unique and stunning scenery in the country. The drive down into Oak Creek Canyon is breathtaking, that stretch of U.S. 89 consistently rated as one of the top scenic drives in America. This past summer we pulled off the road and took some specatular photos of a herd of elk grazing along the highway.

If you didn't find something of an intersting nature in Sedona, you didn't dig deep enough. Yes, it's become extremely developed, far more than when I started going there in the late 70s/early 80s. But if you look beyond the town center, what made it a popular destination still remains.

I've only been going to that part of the country once or twice a year for over two decades. But evidently you know it better, so I digress.

[weblet]

I'll second Dean on the Oak Creek Canyon drive. It really is beautiful. Sedona itself? I can see where Ned is coming from, especially since I'm sure it's way more developed now than when I saw it in the early 90s. But for those who are into spirituality and holistic lifestyles, it is a center of "power".

[deangreenhoe]

My only reason for Flagstaff was to be in "civilization". Since I haven't made my mind up on the trip yet, I have a feeling that in park reservations may be extremely difficult to get when I go to book everything. My dad went to the Grand Canyon a couple of years ago and stayed in Flagstaff. He said the drive wasn't too bad.

I just want to make sure that the one full day is enough to see the park and enjoy it, and not want to be kicking myself for only spending one day.

You aren't too far off with what you are thinking, based on what I know about you Aaron.

AFA staying at the Canyon, unless you pony up for one of the top resort hotels right on the rim, you'll be stuck in some pretty basic digs with primarily family units and cafeteria type dining options close at hand. Once it gets dark, there's obviously nothing to see - not much to do for a single traveler either. I've stayed on the rim more than once when I've had company to keep me entertained in the evenings - if doing the trip solo, I'll make the trip down to Flagstaff at night. The service village right outside the park, (Tusayan, but still informally called "Grand Canyon," primarily by the accommodations there) is still pretty much a snore - a wide spot in the road with tourist trappings where the streets also roll up at night.

Single traveler staying at the Canyon - think lots of time for reflection oh solo mio as the sun sets and a good book in the evening while the coyotes yip-yip in the distance. If that's not what you are going for, Flagstaff is a comfortable, modest sized city, very alpine and woodsy feeling in a beautiful setting at the foot of Arizona's highest peaks and surrounded by high country pine forests. It's a university town so there's a fair amount of activity/dining options in the evening. Other than the canyon rim itself, the general terrain adjacent to the national park is pretty boring, bordering on butt ugly. LOL.

If you still aren't sure, spend one night in Flagstaff and one night at the canyon. The primary reason to be "right there," at least for a night, is for sunset/sunrise views without the long drive in and out. If that's your choice, I'd head to the canyon rim the first night out of Vegas, then make my way at a leisurely pace to Flagstaff for the second.

El Tovar is the best of the accommodations, but don't confuse the high price tag with luxury. If it were located anywhere else, those tariffs would be laughable for that property based on the accommodations. The rooms are still small and modestly outfitted, the restaurant "just okay," only able to charge what they do for what's delivered because of a captive audience, not to mention the snob appeal. I actually like Bright Angel Lodge better next door - at least the price tag is lower for pretty close to the same level of mediocrity. You are there for the views - not the hotels - anyway. If you don't mind walking a few minutes to the rim, Maswick Lodge is usually half the price for the same basic type of accommodations. Seriously, you have to pay a tidy sum for a view of the canyon from your room, and the vast majority of your time in that room, it's night-time and pitch black. Hmm.

One of the advantages of spending one night in Flagstaff are the drives to/from the canyon. U.S. 180 is a beautiful drive through the Coconino National Forest, skirting the San Francisco Peaks. The Desert View Drive heading east along the south rim is a must do (as Ned said.) It's a scenic 50 miles or so, nice views almost all the way to Cameron. However, once you are at the end, it's either backtrack to the village proper on what is usually a fairly congested road, or travel an equal (actually slightly lesser) distance south into Flagstaff. It's a nice circle trip, especially if you allow time for stops at Wupatki Nat'l. Monument, location of the mysterious Wupatki Indian Pueblo archaeological site, and Sunset Crater Volcano Nat'l. Monument. The trip in its entirety is an interesting transition between a number of topographical and vegetation zones.

Even if you aren't interested in Sedona proper, the drive down from Flagstaff on Hwy. 89 is a scant 25 miles with a rather stunning change in altitude and scenery for such a short trip. If you aren't in the mood to take the twisting (sometimes hair raising) switch-back highway back up onto the plateau, you can always just bop over to nearby I-17 and then it's just 20 minutes back to the heart of Flagstaff.

People travel from all over the planet with Sedona as their primary destination. The red rock formations are breathtaking, almost surreal. May as well take a peek as long as you are in the neighborhood and you are only out a couple gallons of gas in exchange for the opportunity.

Finally, AFA your question about if one day is enough at the canyon? Unless you have a specific time consuming activity planned (hiking, mule trip) or are an avid photographer waiting for the light to change at different times of the day, it's plenty. For the average visitor, you walk to the edge of the chasm, gasp (especially the first time) and stare into the abyss. But there's only so long you can engage in that "activity" before it becomes just another view of a giant hole in the ground. :D

[jfrenaye]

Is it wrong for two people to have two opinions?

Personally, I am not enthralled with Jamaica. I send a lot of people there that love the island. I do not see the attraction, but does that mean the other opinions are to be discredited?

[deangreenhoe]

I'll second Dean on the Oak Creek Canyon drive. It really is beautiful. Sedona itself? I can see where Ned is coming from, especially since I'm sure it's way more developed now than when I saw it in the early 90s. But for those who are into spirituality and holistic lifestyles, it is a center of "power".

Sedona was shockingly more developed, especially on the south and east approaches, when I was there in August. And it had only been a couple of years since my last visit. Most of the new development is in the way of high-priced homes and condominiums clinging to the lower rocks, plus all of the typical service businesses crowding the main arteries to service them.

The more scenic approach from the north (Flagstaff) is unchanged. There really isn't any room for more development in that narrow canyon.

Unless you are headed for one of the exclusive resorts in Sedona, the reason to go is the scenery on the way in and out of town. (But they do have some great restaurants.) Some of the soaring rock faces visible right from the main highway remind me somewhat of parts of Zion. Sedona exists simply to service the people who travel from far and wide to experience some of the best scenery in the west. It's not the destination - the environs are.

[weblet]

Seriously, you have to pay a tidy sum for a view of the canyon from your room, and the vast majority of your time in that room, it's night-time and pitch black. Hmm.
Hahahaha! This is what I ask people who just HAVE TO HAVE that enormously overpriced oceanfront room at a beach resort.... You know, the rooms where you are 10 feet from being able to soak your tootsies in the ocean.... Until they start backlighting the ocean, what's the point?

[Ned]

Is it wrong for two people to have two opinions?

Personally, I am not enthralled with Jamaica. I send a lot of people there that love the island. I do not see the attraction, but does that mean the other opinions are to be discredited?

The answer to your question is NO! I didn't think I was at all saying Dean was wrong. It's that I just don't share all his opinions about visiting the Grand Canyon and the surrounding area, so I expressed my opinions.

By the way, Dean is 100% right about the luxury ... not ... accommodations at El Tovar. I like it's charm, however, and have stayed there a number of times, and would go back anytime. Bright Angel is nice and I've stayed there, but prefer El Tovar. I've not stayed in Maswick. I have a higher opinion of the food at El Tovar than Dean. I've enjoyed my meals there. In the winter my only problem with the meals in the hotel was getting to them from my room. They don't really heat the hallways in the hotel, so you better wear your parka to get from your room to the dining room, which will be pleasantly warm, then don your parka again for the trip back to the room. My wife even wears gloves in the hallways in the winter there.

I'll second Dean's comment about the drive between Flagstaff and the Canyon Village. It's gorgeous.

Dean, I've never been to the parks alone. I've always gone with friends or family, so your words of wisdom about that sound quite reasonable. Of course, I always have my iPod with me, and it's loaded with about 50 GBs of movies, and with the MyVu attached, it's like watching the movies on the iPod with a 20" flat screen TV.

I do love to take photos in those "magic hours" surrounding dawn and dusk. That is a big incentive for me to stay in the park. Whenever we visit national parks we try to stay right in the park, especially if we plan more than a night in the park area. I rather spend the extra bucks to stay in the parks than spend time driving back and forth.

By the way, it's not anywhere near the Vegas-Grand Canyon area at all, but I wanted to mention one of my most favorite national parks anywhere, Crater Lake (http://www.nps.gov/crla/) in Oregon. Early in the morning, when the air is still and the sun is just over the horizon of the crater, the view of the lake is breathtaking and somewhat otherworldly. The way the sides of the Crater are reflected perfectly in the water is amazing. Snow often makes it close to impossible to get to the Crater in the winter.

[AaronK]

Thanks for the advice all.
If I do this trip, I won't be solo, I'll be with my girlfriend, but I'm not planning on doing a mule ride (I wouldn't torment a poor mule to having to carry me).

It looks like that for the dates I'll be there, the only lodging available is at the Yavapai Lodge. Though the pricing isn't that bad, I think I'll probably be better off in Flagstaff (or the Best Western that is right outside the entrance).

If one full day is enough to walk around the park, admire the beauty, etc, I'll be happy. Though I do like the idea of doing the drive down to Sedona on my way back to Vegas to admire the scenery.

[Arizona Road Warrior]

One option is to stay in Williams instead of Flagstaff. You can take the train (http://www.thetrain.com/) to the Grand Canyon from Williams if you don't want to drive from Williams.

[mercwyn]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get into this thread but you are talking about my backyard, well, sorta, kinda, okay, spring getaway areas.

Let me throw out a couple of things.

First, Cedar Breaks and Navajo Lake are probably out for the simple reason that there will likely be so much snow on the road above Brian Head and/or Cedar City that you can't get through.

Second, Southern Utah's spring weather is very unpredictable. I've been in a parka one day and shorts and a tee shirt the next. This means that it is possible that by April the road will be clear and the snow is gone and at the same time it is possible that it isn't. I would suggest seeing Zion National Park if you get the chance. It is especially inspiring in the spring as everything is green.

Also, there is the little known Snow Canyon State Park just north of St. George. It is really a nice little canyon consisting of white and red sandstone layers. Very striking.